Jas0n
journeyman
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Westchester, New York
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just got rid of my dura ace 9spd group. what would you guys put on your dfly, the new chorus group or the new record group. the new chorus is essentially old record, but the record is so sweet. do you guys think the cost is worth the upgrade? what about getting a carbon crankset with the chorus? or maybe reynolds wheels? what do you guys think. keep in mind, im in college so the cheaper (relatively), the better. thanks.
-------------------- eat to live, live to ride
if it ain't rainin, it ain't trainin
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easypedaler
contributor
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 149
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How about a Mix.....saves money and get what you want and need.
I got record bottom bracket,rear der and levers. Rest was chorus. Although the 2004 Chorus looks sweet at the prices. Good Luck
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Carbonspeed
friend
   
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 190
Loc: Eilat city every day is a sun ...
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Hi JasOn
Yes easypedaler is right about mix Chorus and Record but don`t forget that the difference between Chorus and Record is only 199$ ,so if you gona spend 1100$ on Chorus i think you should spend it on Record just add 199$ and the top of the top group in the world can be yours, i m student too and i chose the Record instead Chorus, you would not be sorry at all. think if you will buy Chorus you will be sorry to the "rest of your life".
Good luck
-------------------- "We know what we are but we
do not know what we may be". Hamlet.
.......
"TRAINING FOR VICTORY"
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Lon
sage
   
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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One huge advantage to Record is it is so easy to sell on e-bay and get a good price. People are always bidding up Record and D/A.
For $200 and how seldom you buy a bike if you have the difference in money I'd go Record for the lowly, illogical reason of high zoot factor. It looks neat.
However I would look around for 03. It is discounted, still says Record, still looks neat, still has high resale, and to my way of thinking is a better deal. Some will say get 04 Chorus as it is 03 Record. I don't know why for the less tangible reasons.
I've seen 04 Record and it has a lot of small moving carbon parts. That is why I would prefer 03 besides money. I think is a more practical approach to using carbon. But that is just MHO.
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bikeroger
new member
Reged: 01/28/04
Posts: 3
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I recently had the same dilemma and ended up going with a mix. The biggest difference between 03 record and 04 chorus is the titanium hardware on the record. Those Ti bits add up to a fair amount of weight savings.
RW
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dah
new member
Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 19
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How about Record with FSA cranks and BB. That square taper BB is a joke in the 21st century and the even the FSA Superlight is way cheaper than either Chorus or Record.
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Max
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 69
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I just got a new Tetra Pro last week with Chorus 04, and I am not a student. However, I did ride a Tetra with both Record 04 and Chorus 04 before buying mine. I couldn't tell any difference. I know from a mechanical stand point the titanium parts will wear faster than steel, and the weight is too small of a difference to consider, so I opted for what I thought was the best value, Chorus 04.
-------------------- MAX
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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You must be talking about Record/Chorus carbon cranks - they are silly $$ but I think they're actually considerably cheaper than the old record carbon cranks used to be.
I'll agree that the square tapered bottom bracket isn't the best design from an engineering perspective but how much of a real world difference do you think it really makes? I mean people are winning races on that old school bottom bracket every day and if someone smokes me on a climb I doubt it has anything to do with the bottom bracket they have or the fact that mine uses a square taper.
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cycletom
new member
Reged: 12/25/03
Posts: 8
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The line between Record and Chorus is thinning. The new Chorus is the "old" Record i.e. from about 1 year ago. I have the old Record (2 years) and think it is great. So I think you will get close to the same performance with the new Chorus, with only a little less carbon. If you can't stand the thought of not having the very best (which I am many times), then go for the Record. But, if you do, I recommend two things:
1. Go with the Chorus all steel cogset if longevity is important to you. The titanium cogs wear fast, even if only the biggest 4 cogs. I have replaced mine early on with steel due to wear.
2. Consider a different chain. The campy chain needs special tools and special replacement links later on if you ever need to remove it. It adds up to significant cost. (tool=70$, replacement links = 17 $ for each time you want to reinstall the chain). Wipperman chains cost about the same (you can get them all stainless even), and have a reusable link that needs no tools.
Hope this helps.
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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Bought my first Record bike about 3 years ago, up until then I only used Chorus. For the next half-dozen bikes, I chose Chorus - mainly because I much preferred the alloy shifters. Never really took to the Record CF version. Now they're the same, so that distinction is gone.
Finished one bike last week and I went with Chorus, mix of old and new (unfortunately those levers) stuff. I've got a custom coming next week and I'm thinking Record. Why? Because I think the new Record is very cool looking and since this is this month's lifetime dream bike, I want it to be pretty (that and the fact that everything but the frame is going to be black.)
So for me it boils down to the most superficial reason - looks.
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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can you post pictures of your bikes in the photo gallery? sounds like you have a few and i'm guessing they're pretty fancy.
cheers, jeff
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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used to have a bunch of them in Kahuna's old Hydromedia galleries. Have started posting them again, but they're already loaded here. Enjoy.
http://groups.msn.com/BicyclingForumPicPost/trogonsarsenal.msnw
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danK
new member
Reged: 01/22/04
Posts: 12
Loc: eyeduho
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Exactly! I had a Calfee with DA 9, and my Orbea with 03 Chorus/Record 10 is just as stiff to me in the bb/crank. Granted, the splined setups are nice and do better in tests, but like Jeff says, it's moot when I'm riding.
When I get a new bike it will probably have DA10 but I guarantee the first thing I say won't be about how stiff the new crank/bb is.
fyi, for the other poster, I use a Wippermann Connex chain and love it. Quiet, smooth and the masterlink is great.
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danK
new member
Reged: 01/22/04
Posts: 12
Loc: eyeduho
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New dfly? Go Record all the way. $199 is chump change when you get up that high. It's like asking if you should put regular unleaded in your 360 Modena when for 3 cents more a gallon you can have race fuel.
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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dank
Actually, it might be the first thing you mention...it really is that good!
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easypedaler
contributor
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 149
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Agree the record looks are sweet. But think of it this way. No matter which you pick it still will be sweet campy.
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Jas0n
journeyman
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Westchester, New York
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the way i see it, money isn't really the issue as much as value. i work at a shop, so the difference in price is negligable. assuming some difference though, i was thinking buying a $1000 (employee price) wheelset would be better than an $800 wheelset. or on an integrated calfee/deda/cinelli bar/stem. or a fsa superlight crankset. i dunno. as for the ti parts v. steel (chorus)wearing faster, i dont really care too much; i replace parts way too often for that. that said, here's the descision: i still don't know, but im leaning towards record and still spending the extra money on a pair of am. classic carbon wheels or the new reynolnds carbon clinchers. thanks for the opinions though, its always interesting hearing what others think.
-------------------- eat to live, live to ride
if it ain't rainin, it ain't trainin
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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great set of bikes and pics! i love the fact that you've got hay (sp) bails as the background for many of them - a nice change from the ubiquitous garage door :-)
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Max
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 69
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IMO you'll waste your money on any of those items you spoke of, and just prove it when you ride it, when some guy makes you suck his dust as he's pulling away from you on bike that cost half of yours, because he spent other half his money for a good coach and training program. Which will make you look just like what you are. good luck
-------------------- MAX
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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I guess the world lucked out, I don't have a garage.
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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except a coach and a training program don't look cool.
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Jas0n
journeyman
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Westchester, New York
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hahaha. should i be taking personal offense to that? your assuming i dont already have a coach, of course, and that im buying these components and frame for the sake of buying them and not for love of the sport. but, whatever floats your boat.
-------------------- eat to live, live to ride
if it ain't rainin, it ain't trainin
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Max
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 69
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You need help, but not the kind you find on this forum.
-------------------- MAX
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Jas0n
journeyman
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Westchester, New York
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????? thats quite a holier than though attitude, esp. when you ride a tetra. a 5200 isnt as fast, is the tetra necessary? a bit hypocritical i think. we all buy the bikes we want because we can, not because we care about whether or not we need them. its called leisure.
-------------------- eat to live, live to ride
if it ain't rainin, it ain't trainin
Edited by Jas0n (02/12/04 10:08 PM)
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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Was talking to Max, not you.
I'm the one arguing it's all about looks. Invariably, when we start talking about spending money someone chimes about fast guys on cheap bikes racing past you while you're riding your dream machine. For some reason, some people assume it's always about being faster. Well, there are many of us that ride nice bikes with nice components for no reason other than we like them. Training - boring. There will always be someone faster than I am, regardless of what they are riding. I'm not spending my money on things I'm not interested in, I'm buying the nicest bikes I can buy, I'm riding my 6000 miles a year at 18 mph and I'm going to be happy.
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Jas0n
journeyman
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Westchester, New York
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that was my mistake, i was directing at max, not you, just clicked the wrong reply button.
-------------------- eat to live, live to ride
if it ain't rainin, it ain't trainin
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Jas0n
journeyman
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Westchester, New York
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agree completely.
-------------------- eat to live, live to ride
if it ain't rainin, it ain't trainin
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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yea I figured that out - damn threaded view.
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Lon
sage
   
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Here is another in agreement. If I had the money I'd buy a D'Fly right now. I really doubt that I would be appreciably faster than on my Luna. That doesn't mean I wouldn't love to have one, ride one and enjoy one.
A superior rider will always be faster than an average rider even if they are on a slower bike. Heck Lance could beat the vast majority of us (if not all of us) on a Huffy. However is that a reason not to buy and enjoy a high end bike because someone could pass you? I don't think so. Plus you add to that you are buying at a shop discount and it is even more of a reason to buy the very best while you can. Who knows what next year can bring? One of my best friends is gravely ill right now and he was in fantastic condition. He contracted Hepatitis B somewhere in his past and it has destroyed his liver. If he doesn't get one very soon he is gone.
Will a rider with a coach on a regimented training program improve more than someone buying high zoot wheels? I would think as much. I was just reading today at Active.com drills to improve your sprinting ability. They sounded brutal, painful and not a great deal of fun. I really don't care if someone outsprints me to the stop sign. I improved my running once by doing fartleks. I dropped my racing time by a minute a mile. Then I went off even that little bit of training to do a cross state bike ride. In a short time I lost all the gain. Now I don't even time my runs I just have a nice time going down the road.
I enjoy the ride too. I also don't care if I'm the first up a hill or the last. I just care that I get over the hill. I'm in a highly competitive sales field. I need more competition and grief from it like a hole in the head.
A funny thing happened at last summer's MS 150. Our ride is straight out. My wife meets me at the end so I don't have to bus back. This year we were riding the husband of her best friend part way back to his car. He had ridden with me on some Tuesday night club rides. My legs are tired from the weekend and as I said I really don't care if I'm the fastest or not. He also rode with me one day and we talked. To make a long story shorter, he thinks he is too good to ride with me. He is "faster" and "stronger" and I'm just not good enough for him. He never came right out and said it but it became obvious.
Well this year my wife was mad at me because she had to get home to do her grade book and as usual I slept in and got a late start. She said I better get in and get there fast. That was compounded by having to go to the bathroom. The faster I rode the more people I caught and the longer the lines were for the Porta Potty. So I kept hammering until lunch with no lines since I caught the back of the front. I called my wife she was thrilled I was ahead of time and I just rode the rest of the way in.
Well we got there and no Dave. After some time my wife called (now mad at him) and said where are you? His response was well Lon can't be there yet. My wife replied I had been there for 30 minutes and she had to get going.
Dave made it and immediately started to ask questions to confirm that I could not have possibly been faster than him. Did I leave early? No. Did I ride pace lines? No. Did I skip rest stops? No Did I skip lunch? No Did I not talk with friends from the shops? No The poor man was having a nervous breakdown over this. Fat Farr can't be faster than Thin Dave who is always faster than me. Then he looked at my computer not believing it yet. Then his poor mind started to go even more. I had a higher average speed...not by much but enough to total him. Then he said I had to have been drafting since he was in pace lines. I said no I don't trust other riders that much and the only drafting was a teenager drafting me through a headwind.
Well this continued all the way back to his car. It really was fun to see his reactions. However he still could not admit that I rode faster than him for that day and that ride that his parting comment was: "I guess I better buy a Calfee."
We are not all about fast. I like some of the other comments am about enjoying myself. Sometimes it means I hammer, sometimes I loaf, sometimes inbetween. I ride my ride whatever it is for that day.
When my son gets out of school and hopefully I'll have some extra money I want to get a Dragonfly in nude with the best of whatever I can afford that is practical for day to day use by a 215 pounder. I'm not going to pass someone who is faster than me on it. But I'm sure going to enjoy riding it and looking at it as I lift weights. (My bikes are by my equipment.)
One last funny story. I was on a century ride with several friends. One bored at our speed asked if we minded if he rode ahead. I think Dave and I were happpy since we were almost dying trying to keep up with him as it was.
Well Brian had a shaved head, a bunch of tatoos, mountain bike shorts and shoes, and a t-shirt. His wife is a great cook so he had a noticible paunch. He was riding ancient Italian steel with a mix of parts.
Ahead of us was the University of Pittsburgh Bike Team. They love to park together and pose looking like a cover from Colorado Cyclist. They were all on ti Dean's.
Now what I did not mention is Brian was a bike messenger for about 10 years. He caught the Pitt Team on a brutal 3 mile climb and decided to have some fun into lunch. He started to ride about 30 yards behind them. They noticed him and decided to blow him off. They look back and there he is 30 yards back. They form a disciplined pace line and there he is 30 yards back...shaved head, tatoos, and belly. Well he tortured them all the way to lunch.
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dfcas
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 136
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I'm gonna order a Dragonfly tomorrow and be the ultimate slow old fat geezer poser.Maybe I'll get it painted pink.Anyone that drops me dropped aa old guy on a pink bike.But if I get by anybody they will surely be embarrassed....
Dan
-------------------- no signature
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Jas0n
journeyman
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Westchester, New York
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hahaha, best post all day. i like the idea.
-------------------- eat to live, live to ride
if it ain't rainin, it ain't trainin
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mb2k
new member
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Bay Area, CA
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Have now been riding the new '04 Record w/Carbon Crank and love it! I have been riding the '01 or '02 Record and can tell you the shifting on the 04 is smoother....especially the front derailler! Great set up...have had NO problems. Looks are obviously sweet with the Calfee bikes! Go with Record if you can handle the cost or a mix isn't a bad idea either...
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Max
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 69
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So son, you don't like my attitude. Then don't waste my time. I was riding pro bikes when your mother was changing your diapers, but I don't think your a baby any more. So don't act like one on this forum, and you'll find out there are a lot of knowledgeable people on here that are willing to help you when you need it.
And about the bike I ride, don't worry about it. It's exactly what I needed (nothing less or nothing more). I test rode every Ti / carbon bike I could get my hands on for 14 months. Trek's and Calfee's typical have an excessive amount of bb flex for my needs. However, after one person to person meeting with Craig Calfee, and nine e-mails later from him, he eliminated 90% of what I was seeing, and at no extra cost. Which made Calfee the best value. So yes, a Tetra was necessary for me. Your entitled to think whatever you want, I don't care. After 30 years of competitive cycling, I think know what will or will not meet my needs, Mr Leisure.
I would suggest in the future to not contradict yourself in your statements, and to learn that money is very important element in determining value. Value is not just having top shelf components.
"keep in mind, im in college so the cheaper (relatively), the better."
"the way i see it, money isn't really the issue as much as value."
And leisure is different for everyone.
-------------------- MAX
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Jas0n
journeyman
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Westchester, New York
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i forgot, your lance armstrong himself. sounds like someone has been jaded by a few too many mid pack finishes. no one asked for your opinion. i asked for the group's opinion. you choose to reply back with a comment which is in itself childish. and yet, im the younger one. its suprising how you suggest that there are people here who are knowledgable and willing to help others out (im sure that you are assuming that you are one of these people), yet you insist on the degrading the level of this thread to a childish, "im faster than you" quarrel. you said it yourself:
"IMO you'll waste your money on any of those items you spoke of, and just prove it when you ride it, when some guy makes you suck his dust as he's pulling away from you on bike that cost half of yours, because he spent other half his money for a good coach and training program. Which will make you look just like what you are."
what exactly am i? have you ridden with me? do you know anything about me besides my age? mr. leisure? so you think i dont compete? you assume i dont have a coach? you assume. guess whos the ass then.
keep your attitude to yourself and well be fine. i wasent asking about speed, nor traning, nor appearencs, but about buying components for the sake of getting the best bike i can; i work in a shop, i have tons of people around me who know what they're talking about, among them a south american national champion and somone who i am sure has forgotten more about cycling than you can ever claim to know. i starte a thread for the sake of the thread, for a convo.
you said im hypocritical. how is acknoledging that money is not too much of an issue (i am looking at ~ $2k groups here, so it honestly isn't) but still looking for a good dollar/performance value hypocritical? as old as you are, i think most here will agree that you need to grow up. either that, or older people are becoming senile younger and younger these days. im not going to launch any further attacks, im just going to leave it at that and ride away, the younger of the two, the more mature of the two, with my d'fly and the best components i can buy even though im slow and fat and a poser and only ride bike paths.
-------------------- eat to live, live to ride
if it ain't rainin, it ain't trainin
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KYCalfee
friend
Reged: 01/08/04
Posts: 35
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JaSon,
I must say this thread has been most entertaining. Maybe a steel cage match could settle this issue. This may be a PPV event which could pay for your compnents. Thanks for the fun read.
KYCalfee
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Jas0n
journeyman
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Westchester, New York
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glad to see someone here actually gets a kick out of this board. im all for the ppv match, but only if i can get a coach.
-------------------- eat to live, live to ride
if it ain't rainin, it ain't trainin
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Lon
sage
   
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Don't forget the training program...
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cycletom
new member
Reged: 12/25/03
Posts: 8
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Love your story. Hope you still ride with Dave.
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Tetrafied
new member
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 14
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Re: How abo | |