dbrk
contributor
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 201
Loc: Finger Lakes, New York
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Hey Kahuna,
Not to slight others interests but there are forums here that have evoked...uhh...very little interest. I know there must be limited space for discussion but I'm wondering if it might be possible to create a handful of broader headings.
I, for one, would like a place to talk to other Lug Nuts, you know, folks who think that the pinnacle of all bicycles is lugged steel. These bikes have all the history and they have never been better (Sachs, Rivendell, Mariposa, Hampsten, Della Santa, etc.). The tilt towards techy-smecky leaves me, well, largely uninspired though I like a handful of things that use technology in the post-C-Record era. Sometimes it would be fun to compare and discuss the various features of lugged bikes because, well, they actually have features to distinguish them. A "Calfee" [substitute your generic bike here] looks like a "Calfee." What's to talk about? Outfit them with a plug-in generic fork, put on the same handful of parts controlled by our current monopoly, and voila! Not much of a bike worth discussing, so the threads go in more interesting directions, no? I'm NOT picking on Calfee, let me be clear. But with most modern bikes the bikes themselves are so homogenous that only minor tweaks might draw our attentions. The lugged steels are the best example of bikes that don't look like they were made at a Burger King ("have it _your_ way"...yeah, sure, so that it is just a tiny bit different from anyone else's way...).
I'm not complaining, pal, just suggesting a Forum that might get us talking about bikes and riding those bikes.
yerpal, dbrk
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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on an unrelated topic, what do the multiple stars by one's name signify on this forum? i seem to have seen it for the people associated with a particular form (e.g. craig for calfee, tom kellog for spectrum, etc.) but am not sure what it signifies in your case.
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Kahuna
Forum Admin
Reged: 12/11/03
Posts: 162
Loc: Maui, Hawaii
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Jeff,
If you click on the user's name you will see the stars correspond to a rating system. At the bottom of each message you see a "rate this thread" feature. The number of stars are probably displayed as an average rating score from all the user's posts that have been rated. I could be wrong but I think that's how the software works.
-K
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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that makes sense. dbrk is a wealth of information on many topics, not just bikes. no suprise he's got a great rating!
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Kahuna
Forum Admin
Reged: 12/11/03
Posts: 162
Loc: Maui, Hawaii
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Dbrk,
Can you be more specific? I can create a general forum for lugged steel frames like you suggest but which other forums do you propose we consolidate and place where? Some of the Bikefanclub forums like Spectrum, Calfee and Strong are linked to by the manufacturers and exist as seperate forums for that reason. Like the Serotta forums of past and present, they exist to bring together a specific community of owners. Also, I couldn't merge the Spectrum forum into a general purpose "lugnuts" forum (although I like the idea) because in addition to lugged steel, Spectrum also makes TIG welded and (I think) filet brazed frames.
I realize some of the forums have little traffic but if we merge too many of them, the site becomes undifferentiated and "yet another cycling forum".
If you can suggest a theme or specific forum topics in addition to lugnuts that that might help further differentiate ourselves, I'm definitely willing to consider that.
Anyway thanks for your input, which is always welcome.
-K
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Kahuna
Forum Admin
Reged: 12/11/03
Posts: 162
Loc: Maui, Hawaii
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Yep, he da man!
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dbrk
contributor
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 201
Loc: Finger Lakes, New York
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Thanks to all who have been so kind to me. I've not quite figured out all the details of the Forum but I am impressed with it's ease and clarity. It's darn fun.
To refine my suggestion, I might think about consolidating the Italian, Belgian, and French makers such as Colnago, Pinarello, DeRosa, Merckx, Pegoretti, and Look. There are important differences among them but they have much in common in history, trends, and development. With the exception of Pegoretti who sings a more complex tune (and one more pleasing to my ears), these builders in the past 15 years have all developed with a keen eye on each other and as a kind of wave. There is something different about these from the Americans (more than that goofy 70mm bb turning the wrong way) and much alike among them.
Next, I might consolidate American Race Bike builders such as Cannondale, high-end Trek, Klein, and LeMond---and put the Ti bikes in their own category: IF, Merlin, Moots, Seven, etc., and let Strong Ti, Serotta, and others be mentioned there. These are not exclusive categories, obviously, since Seven makes the occasional steel bike and IF does steel and ti. But there is something more in common with steel/alu American bikes (tig'd and modern) and with all of the Tis. Sort of American/materials split. Make sense?
If specific brands like Spectrum, Calfee, and Strong warrant their own space, that's fine. One group will read the other.
As for Traditionalist Lugged Steel I would simply let this cover the whole gambit of possibilities. So if Spectrum steel gets mentioned here, then that's swell. But with interest in Sachs, Nagasawa, Mariposa, Della Santa, Eisentraut, Rivendell, Goodrich, and others who build this way (but also in other ways, like Kirk, Steelman, Rex, Vanilla, Stowe, Hampsten), this is pretty fine company for anyone to be mentioned. I am sure Tom K. would agree.
Again, I didn't mean to pick on Calfee or anyone else, and I am sure folks got my meaning...well, I hope so. Modern bikes sort of come in categories. I mean, once you are interested in one sort, then you gravitate towards their kindred. Thus Serotta ti buyers usually discuss Moots, Seven, Strong, IF, Merlin, Spectrum, etc. LugNuts can't get enough of lugged steel examples. There are folks in this category that are a hundred years old (Mercian, Bob Jackson, Bates by Cooper, etc.) and some new(ish)young(ish) (Oswald, Courtney, Bohm). Lots of brand-specific forum seems to me to fragment the discussion when bikes are more in categories of style, material, purpose, etc.
Just a thought, it's your livingroom, Kahuna. I would just like to see more traffic here. The new Serotta forum works fine, for example, but I'm a bit reluctant to discuss my refurbished Rene Herse or the 650B singlespeed Mariposa that will soon be here. That's fun stuff, no?
Thanks again, Kahuna. And thanks to others, like JeffG, for the kind remarks.
dbrk
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OldBones
new member
Reged: 01/30/04
Posts: 17
Loc: NJ
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After watching the forum for the past few weeks, I would might tend to agree with dbrk's remarks and suggestion for consolidation and reorganization. I, for one, am rather suprised that there is not more interest in LandSharks though I realize John Slawta makes a few hundred frames a year vs the few thousand of some other smallish builders. Maybe there just aren't enough Sharkies out there for a dedicated page. I did send an email to the Shark webmaster (John likes phones but not email) to let it be known that there is a fan site, btw.
However, since the revamped forum is still quite new and refugees from other sites are still finding this site, Kahuna might put off any changes for a period of time. This all might work itself out or if not; the best path might be more easily discerned in a short while.
O B
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JackL
new member
Reged: 03/10/04
Posts: 16
Loc: Seattle
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I think DBRK has a good idea. There are quite a few of us who are drawn to the beauty and tradition of lugged frames, but haven't found a web forum specific to this focus (although some, like the BOB and related framebuilder's lists, are close). I don't think it matters a bit that it isn't brand-specific. We just like lugged frames, and will gladly read and write about them in an appropriate forum.
Jack in Seattle
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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I used to be of the same school of thought that this forum should consolidate or provide more 'focused' subjects. But I admit that I was wrong and realize that Kahuna's vision for this locale is probably well beyond any of my myopic tastes (thank goodness).
It is interesting to note how we talk of the values of diversity but then not appreciate them in practice. One of the good things about this board is that due to its wide range of subjects it seems not to foster any overbearing or incestuous views that may erupt from time to time in less disparate environments (albeit virtual)
Anyway, it is much quieter here too. 
--------------------
It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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sawbones
new member
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 8
Loc: Kern County, California
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I think it would be a big mistake to merge any of the present forums. The present format is just right. Perhaps additional ones can be added in the future, as the participants ideas change. This is more efficient, becuse you can go to the area you want, without having to view a lot of threads.
Sawbones
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