b1fong
new member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 8
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Hello,
Just registered and wanted to say how happy I have been with my 2 Merlin road bikes. I just upgraded to a Extra light and love that bike. I will need to get rid on my 1999 Merlin Road if anybody is interested. It is a 57cm.
Customer service is great. Talk to Chris Brown if you guys need any help. There has got to be people out there that can post more in this section.
Bill
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MichaelKatz
friend
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 26
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It would be good to see more activity on this site. Perhaps the lack of activity is a byproduct of Merlin's acquisition by American Bicycle Group, its perceived precipitous flight to Tennessee and the Boston era owners, who make up the vast majority of Merlin owners, being disenchanted with the direction the company has taken, including the perceived abandonement of the dedicated Boston employees. What do I know, however, other than that my 2003 Spectrum Superlight came out of Merlin's custom shop and is superior in design, fit, finish and ride to my Serotta and Seven. Of course Tom Kellogg's direct involvement with the design, fit and finish of my bike played a major role in this but the quality of the frame fabrication, tube selection availability and fidelity to Tom's design and specs are all Merlin's.
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terry
new member
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 47
Loc: Southeastern MA
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michael: i'm curious as to in what way your spectrum is superior to your serotta/seven. i'm from the boston area and have always liked merlins, however when it came time to try a ti bike (steel only for 25 yrs) i bought serotta legend ti. i did because i liked their steel so much and aesthetically i think their tubes are the best looking in the biz, also there were half a dozen merlins around. i still think merlin makes a very nice frame (and having t. kellogg endorse it is huge). i also liked seven so much i bought one (a sola ti). i don't see any difference in quality in any of these builders, maybe the difference is in the way they interprete the users needs & abilities and desires.
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MichaelKatz
friend
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 26
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Terry, I think your conclusion is right on the mark. I have an Axiom Ti, CSI, and Spectrum Superlight Ti. I also rode a borrowed Legend Ti for 3 weeks while waiting for my CSI to arrive. One could debate all day the relative aesthetics of each of them - does one have smoother welds than the others, the shape of the seat stays, the quality of the paint - and at the end of the day, 3 different people could have 4 different opinions. The bottom line is that all 3 Ti bikes are made of top shelf materials and reflect top shelf craftsmanship. While there may be differences in the paint and welds, those differences are deminimus and in any event become very subjective.
I do think, however, that Seven, Serotta and Spectrum have distict signatures reflective of different design philosophies that impact on handling and ride characteristics and that transcend the "custom" process. This, I think, directly impacts on translating the customer's vision of the desired bike into reality.
When I had my Axiom, CSI and Superlight built, the bench mark that I used was a steel Independant Fabrication Crown Jewel that I had owned. I wanted a bike that had the CJ's responsive handling, without any twitchiness when hitting road imperfections and with more stability. I also wanted more stiffness through the bottom bracket and drivetrain but also more comfort and low level vibration absorption on long rides.
The Axiom gave me the additional stiffness and vibration absorption but sacrificed the responsive handling for greater stability. This seems to be due to a tendency to build Sevens with a higher center of gravity and slight understeering at the front end. I feel like I am sitting on top of the Seven and not immersed into the cockpit. In speaking to other Seven owners, this seems to be a common characteristic. It does not seem to reflect a strong racing heritage in the design characteristics.
The CSI is somewhat stiffer but not as stiff as the Seven but also provides more vibration dampening than the CJ. The CSI's handling is more neutral and responsive than the Seven but is not as responsive as the CJ's. I think this in part is due to the "over-square" design approach that Serotta has - top tubes shorter than seat tubes. The cockpit, while comfortable, is not as elongated and my body postion is not as stretched out as on the CJ. (It could feel a bit short if I focused on it but I don't so it doesn't!)
The Spectrum, however, hits the mark the best. It is the most responsive handler of the 3 but yet is the most stable. With its 1" chainstays, it is the stiffest through the bb and drivetrain yet the hour glass seat stays and tubing selection provide great comfort on road hits and great buzz absorption. It has the most aggressive upper body positioning but yet is ergonomically the most comfortable on long rides. It is a performance machine tuned to the ergonomics of my body. While Kellogg's direct involvement in designing this custom frame no doubt plays the controlling role in this, including a design approach that is clearly performance oriented, Merlin provides the tube selection and expert fabricating skills that turn Kellogg's ti designs into reality with fidelity to my vision and his design specs.
Whew, I'm long winded.
Edited by MichaelKatz (03/24/04 06:02 AM)
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lanton
new member
Reged: 02/11/04
Posts: 17
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Thanks for such an intersting comparison. Did you get the impression that using your cj as a reference was important to the builders, did it help them understand better what you wanted? Aren't you terribly curious to know exactly what kinds of geometry differences there are between these bikes? I know there are many other factors involved, but still, handling and responsiveness seems to be so dependent on certain numbers. I'm pretty sure the longer top tube and slacker seat tube angle on my bike has something to do with my feeling of being more in the bike than on top of it, another aspect besides the handling and responsiveness that I'd like to keep. Sounds like spectrum has it down, but now the cj sounds really tempting too...
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MichaelKatz
friend
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 26
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For what it's worth, here are some stats:
Seven - TT length c-c =54.8 ST length c-c =52.5 HT length = 14.8 HT angle = 73 ST angle = 73 BB Drop - ?? Stem - 11cm, +10 degree Spectrum - TT length c-c = 55.2 ST length c-t = 56 (54 c-c?) HT length = 13.3 HT angle = 73 ST angle = 73 BB Drop = 7.5 Stem - 10 cm, +10 degree
At first blush, stats don't seem to explain handling differences but my Spectrum is the clear winner in the responsiveness department and is stable as hell during 50 mph descents! The forks on both are Wound Up but I don't know the rakes.
My use of the CJ as a reference was beneficial in that all 3 shops had ridden them. While the CJ reflected beautiful craftsmanship and was a blast to ride, I found it to be disconcertingly twitchy when hitting road imperfections and too flexy through the bottom bracket. May be related. On rides in excess of 60 miles, it also transmitted too much road buzz which became wearing. On the other hand, I really liked riding it and others I know who own them do too. If you're looking for equally high octane performance but with civilized road manners and comfort, I don't know how Tom Kellogg achieves the mix, but he does.
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terry
new member
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 47
Loc: Southeastern MA
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michael; thanks for taking the time for those in-depth analysis'. interesting-both bikes have the same angles, fork (assumeing same rake here) and overall length-taking into consideration TT + stem. yet, for you the results are very distinct. thanks and keep riding.
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MichaelKatz
friend
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 26
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This whole thing has me intrigued now. Maybe the difference in handling and feel of being in the cockpit instead of on it has something to with the difference in the head tube lengths. I wonder what the BB drop is for the Seven. I've also asked my Serotta dealer to pull out the specs on my CSI to throw into the mix.
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lanton
new member
Reged: 02/11/04
Posts: 17
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Back when Bicycling mag was readable they had alot of information with which to compare specs. In an old buyers guide they even had some of the specs like ht/st angles and tt lenghts all laid out in chart. One of the few that always stuck out was lemond with the slack st and steep ht and long tt,(seems like serotta was on the oppposite end of that range). Don't know if it was ever very accurate, but it was interesting to browse anyway. One of the reasons I took a chance on my old lemond was just out of curiousity, to see how that supposedly different geometry worked (that and lemond himself seemed about my size and not too long in the leg). Still haven't measured it accurately enough to be certain about those specs, but it feels better than any other bike I've ridden so far in fit handling and responsiveness, it's just a bit mushy in the bb at times.
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RichardA
new member
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 10
Loc: upstate NY
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I think that you will find the handling differences will show up in the front-center and chain stay dimensions. It would be interesting to see these added to the comparison.
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BlueJays
journeyman
Reged: 09/21/07
Posts: 69
Loc: United States
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The craftsmen in the Merlin custom shop are second-to-none and they build one slick custom titanium frameset! The absolute purchasing power of their firm to the titanium vendors pretty much lets Merlin get anything they desire in terms of tube specifications. If the Merlin Custom shop or Spectrum Cycles makes that tube calculation, one can bet they will somehow have the ability to source that titanium tubeset. I once heard they have similar influence on the premium titanium market as the aerospace industry, based upon volume. Pretty cool news.
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