RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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dbrk,
Quote: "In addition, I think Andy doesn't ride a top tube this long anymore: Eddy was waaaay into long top tubes."
Can you share more discussion on this? Do you know what top tube Hampsten is riding these days vice the old days and why he changed? I can guess at your own thoughts on fore-aft & saddle to bar positioning but would appreciate you waxing on more about this.
I opted for a long top tube and after being off the bike for a while it felt way too long. After I got back on in the late spring and committed myself to riding back into shape my position felt better, though the physical suffering was unbearable at times. When I was recently refitted I readjusted to a more upright position. This immediately improved my comfort in long rides.
Strangely, as I improved my fitness, I felt I reached a point where I couldn't go as hard because my upper body felt like a hood scoop. I re-lowered my position and felt much more efficient in a head wind. Although, now that winter is upon us, I probably will not validate this position over a 100km distance. My guess is that discplined riders who remain in decent shape throughout the year do not have such problems but for those older or who have less time to ride are continually vexed by fore-aft and vertical positioning issues.
My personal solution is to use a Look ergo stem that allows me to adjust my position based on how limber my back and arms feel throughout the year. This may indicate that I'm either off (1 to 1.5cm on the tt) or more likely reflects that my body doesn't conform to any 'absolute' tt length due to age, fitness level & relative muscle strength. Another solution was our somewhat similar approaches to the front-end design of our Parlees.
I also found that returning to the gym has helped and I was even open-minded enough to try some yoga. The stretching was great. Anyway.....
Richard
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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BubbaTex
journeyman
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 56
Loc: Austin, Texas
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I can't tell you what Andy rides now, but I'll tell you what he took from his experience with Eddy - the stem length. If you look at his site, he will talk about building (or fitting) the bike around the proper stem. For my 6'1" frame, that was a 12cm. Let's say this is fit point #1. #2 - Eddy's TT's are not THAT long. Since his geometry is built around a "slack" seat tube angle (mine is 72.26 for a size 58 c-c), the TT length is somewhat standard when compared to other bikes. Remember, a bike with a 73 degree STA with the same TT as Eddy's 72.26 degree STA will have a longer cockpit. The slacker STA on the Merckx places you further away from the bars (all other things remaining relative). Basically, I went from a bike with a 73.5 degree STA, TT went from a 56.3 to the Merckx 57.3 and dropped from a 13cm stem to a 12cm stem. Effectively, I am about .5 cm further away from the bars BUT my KOP is about 2cm further back. Much better for my femur size and torso. I push soooo much better now and actually use more leg muscle than I ever did. OK, to better answer your question, I would just buy 2 stems. You are right, most people to need to change as their level of fitness (and suppleness) changes. Start out with the shorter one and then go longer as you get in better shape. I have a collection of stems due to this. However, I am now very comfortable with the 12cm on the Merckx.
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"It is more important to do less more often than to do more less often" Ed Burke, PhD
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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I also have a work drawer full of old stems, thus I got an ergo stem, although there are limits to repositioning due to cabling, tt length etc. Like you, I prefer a slack STA and feel comfortably planted in the saddle, especiallly while climbing. Interesting but I never considered building a frame using stem length as the reference point.
Thanks,
How's the weather in Texas? Gig'em... Merry Christmas
Richard
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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dbrk
contributor
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 201
Loc: Finger Lakes, New York
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Andy Hampsten rode Merckx bikes with top tubes as long as 60cm but currently rides a 56cm tt. As for the change, I think all of us evolve in fit and comfort. One thing is still for sure, those Hampstens are mighty fast and fit.
When I said that Eddy likes long top tubes I meant only with reference to custom fits, likely for his racers. Actually current Merckx bikes have rather proporttional top tubes, but it's that slack sta that creates an effectively longer top tube. Next year, 05, I hope to order a custom Corsa 61x57. Eddy can decide the rest.
dbrk
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BubbaTex
journeyman
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 56
Loc: Austin, Texas
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RDP - The weather is great in Austin - 65 today and warmer as the weekend progresses. I will be doing 50 tomorrow, Sat. and Sunday!
Sorry, we're on the "hook'em" side (but I am a Tar Heel transplant!).
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"It is more important to do less more often than to do more less often" Ed Burke, PhD
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BubbaTex
journeyman
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 56
Loc: Austin, Texas
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Eddy does custom too! That'll be my next one in a few years also (though it is hard to believe that anything other than his stock 58 would fit me better!).
Keep us posted on that.
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"It is more important to do less more often than to do more less often" Ed Burke, PhD
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Climb01742
journeyman
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 71
Loc: Concord, MA
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i'm waiting for a MX leader (circa mid-90s) to arrive off of eBay. it's a 55 square and a 73 STA. my custom numbers are 72.5 STA, 54.5 TT and 55.5 ST. so this one should be darn close. i really like slack seat tubes. i'm definitely falling into douglas's camp of getting behind the spindle. if i dig the MX as much as i hope/think, may go for a custom eddy someday. how does the Corsa differ from MX? many thanks. and i can't wait to own a classic eddy. as a kid, i remember blue peugots (sp?) and eddy's in molteni. the peugot white&black checkerboard is still a classic design/look. oops, sorry, the retro geek escaped again.
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When in doubt, shut up and pedal.
Edited by Climb01742 (12/26/03 02:50 PM)
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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BubbaTex,
65 deg! I'm glad someone is getting some good mileage in....Do you ever frequent Freewheeling in Austin? Nice shop.
R
BTW - I love my A&M cycling jersey. 
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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