RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Bike(s): Parlee Z1, Record 10 speed, Am Classic 350 wheels/Veloflex Paves. Calfee Tetra-Custom, Chorus/Record, Mavic Open Pro/Veloflex Paves
Initial road test (10+ miles on the Parlee). (Note: the best part of the day was the warm up ride with my son to a neighborhood park)
Conditions: Cool blustery day with a strong tail wind out and head wind coming back.
Fitness level: Poor to mediocre. Last two months were concentrating on work and off the bike. Felt ok but quickly generated phlegm on the flat.
Bike fit: The lbs dialed my saddle to bar drop and fore-aft position on the Parlee quite well. Felt as if tucked in for a Super-G downhill. Best position in the drops I have ever had considering the time spent off a bike. In terms of materials, the clear coat finish and carbon are stunning. What a shame if it ever hits the deck.
Bottom line: The bike is stiff and reacts like a rocket: a fast and responsive frame. What came to mind was Robert Millar’s review of the Seven Axiom in Procycling, July 2002. When asked on what he wanted in his custom titanium frame, “A titanium frame which rides like oversize aluminum, please.” So now, I have mine in carbon.
When I returned home I saddled up the Calfee for a quick spin around the block. The Calfee’s geometry is similar to the Parlee except the Calfee’s top tube is longer. The transition felt close to transparent except for a slightly different reach. The Calfee’s ride is gorgeous, laid back, smooth yet stiff and responsive. I will hold onto it or perhaps ‘trade it in’ for another Calfee custom with the same top tube length as the Parlee.
Choose your material as you will but fit is king. Long live the king.
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Kahuna
Forum Admin
Reged: 12/11/03
Posts: 162
Loc: Maui, Hawaii
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RDP,
Thanks for posting this. Even though this particular forum hasn't been that busy lately, that doesn't mean people won't see or appreciate this.
I've always been very curious about Parlee cycles since everyone who's ridden them nearly always has something good to say about these bikes. Whenn it comes to frames, I'm a big carbon fiber fan. It will be great to hear how things go once the weather gets nice and stays nice in your neck of the woods. I also can't wait to hear more about dbrk's adventures with his Hampten/Parlee as well.
Take care,
-K
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skagwayroadie
contributor
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 141
Loc: Alaska
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I too am lurking about with attentive eyes and ears. As much as I like Calfee, Parlee has always had my attention...beautiful bikes with fine engineering and construction are special no matter what the brand may be.
Good day...Mark
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dbrk
contributor
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 201
Loc: Finger Lakes, New York
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Today I took the Hampsten Parlee Z1 down the road for about 25 miles. It turned cold, wet, and the wind seemed determined to be pushing me backwards. My bike is custom and rarely have I had a fit so right, my Sachs, Mariposas and Rivendells fit like this, perfectly. I took a standard 58 but used the head tube length stnd on a 60 and added about 2d of slope. This is entirely unnoticeable, the bike looks like a horizontal top tube. It's just right. But on a day like today a bike really shows its qualities because there is very little about being out there that's huge fun unto itself. I mean the wet, the wind, and then add the cold, well, the bike either makes this better or it feels like a slug. This bike is lithe, direct, and fast off the mark but it's also remarkably genteel and forgiving. There is nothing twitchy or too quick about it, a feeling I had on my only Calfee ride (a stnd 58 Tetra): the bike was just too racy, too quick up front. I like a bike that asks you to take your hands off the bars going reaaaaaal slow. The Parlee is superb at keeping the line and likes the road, be it slow or fast. I love descending on this bike too. Very, very steady. I think that descending is real measure of a bike. Is it a rock? Does it make you forget how fast you are going? If a bike can descend then it strikes me as likely to get the rest of it right. If you are stuck test riding for only a short bit to spend a large bit of money, then imho you could do worse then find a real descent and push the frame and fork down that hill to find its mettle. This bike is among the very best at handling this assignment.
Well more later, perhaps after some fair weather days.
dbrk
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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Thanks for all reports.
DBRK, one thing about Parlee I had noted was there fairly short standard HT's. Looks like you corrected that quite nicely and easily.
I too am a big carbon fan, though I still enjoy steel and aluminum and would probably enjoy ti if I had something stiff enough like a Legend or even perhaps Litespeed (though I'd never buy another of those....to weird now for my palate). Anyway, with carbon it seems the possibilities seem endless. All other materials seem to compromise something to get the desired ride.
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dbrk
contributor
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 201
Loc: Finger Lakes, New York
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vaxn8r,
As you know from other venues and long stated preferences I am a less dedicated carbon fan than most. I reserve my ravings usually for steel bikes with huge handmade mojo that comes from lug work and details. But that said I have been more than pleasantly surprised with the Hampsten-Parlee. It's nothing like my C40 which will now either be sold or get the occasional fastboy ride: just way more comfortable and less sketchy, even less carbon challenged in that wooden feel. The Parlee just feels more like a "normal" bike, I mean, I can't tell particularly that the material is affecting the ride more than other factors. I like that and take it as a real positive.
The custom fit is what gets me going and I like often to work from a company's given starting points with the idea that these are their ideals, values, and visions. Too many "true" custom bikes look goofy to me, as if the amateurs got their hands on the design and the bike company just went and did it. I see so many bikes that look disproportioned and incorrect to my eye, not just because I'm a traditionalist. I have never, for example, seen such a thing happen with a Vanilla or a Sachs or a Hampsten, even when the bikes are all zooty and blingbling (in a good way, I mean that). But I see too many Serottas like that and it strikes me as odd that they get out the door looking like that. Oh well, I rant. With the Hampsten-Parlee I made a few modifications to make up for the short headtubes and long top tubes. In off the peg mode, these are pretty aggressive race bikes that mean to get you low into the bars and stretched in the back flat. That's not my style. When I sized up to get less saddle/bar drop I asked to avoid the unsightly ht extension but also lowered the bb and lengthend the chainstay to keep the bike more balanced. I'm using only a 172.5 crank on a 60cm bike so there was no need to keep the bb at Parlee's 6.7cm! TOO high unless you are pedalling crits!
I've got a lovely Seven Odonata but I find the ti/carbon combination problematic for the cost/benefit. My Odonata was used, so I got it for a song. This Z1 was a serious act of faith. I will NEVER spend close to this much for a frame/fork again because I think there are so many more interesting steel bikes that ride every bit as nice for a ton less. As you know, weight doesn't impress me. But I thought this time, just this once, I would try to get a modern bike that is technologically "advanced" and fits me properly. It ended up costing a lot less than what I would have spent on an Ottrott, for example, and I'd never spend that kinda' money. For the price of an Ottrott frame without a fork I'd have another complete Singer from Paris! That's not even a close choice in my skewed world...
Don't mistake me, I love this Z1 but as with all modern bikes I can think of, it's not what I would grab if the house were burning down. It's a fantastic ride but such a bike doesn't make me rave past a certain point.
dbrk
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Climb01742
journeyman
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 71
Loc: Concord, MA
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douglas,
i think i note an interesting ambivalence in your post. you clearly enjoy the parlee's ride very much. but part of you keeps from giving the frame your full heart. the price is part of it, but your love of lugged steel always shines thru. love is never simple, is it?
climb.
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When in doubt, shut up and pedal.
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dbrk
contributor
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 201
Loc: Finger Lakes, New York
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My personal preferences for the feel of steel and the look of more traditionalist lugged bikes are, well, just that...and so you are quite correct, Climb. I suppose I have a bit of a blind spot for the cutting edges of technology. But I've surveyed carefully the current landscape of carbon offerings and the recent wild proliferation of glued and baked tubes. I have clear recollections of Ugo DeRosa denoucing carbon with none too veiled references to his pal Colnago and then the most recent plaudits made about his own 50th Anniversary bike that is...uhh...carbon. Everyone, including DeRosa, is entitled to change his mind and perhaps he believes that things have changed that dramatically in the past few years. I dunno. What turned my interests back to carbon was Parlee's ability to make some real meaningful changes in geometry. Add to that normal looking round tubes and no gussets (apologies to those Calfee sorts who like this look...I cannot warm to it), and the bike fits as nicely as it looks. "Normal" Parlees are race bikes, no doubt, but they start in a place less "crit bike" by ethos than either Calfee or Trek. What I mean is that companies have an catechism, a sort of starting point of fit and build, a kind of We Do This thing in general. It can be entirely irrelevant when you consider matters in custom terms but I like to feel comfortable with these starting points and tweak working "backwards" in order to create a ride that I will like but one that reflects this company's basic ethos. In other words, a Merckx rides like a Merckx, a Serotta like a Serotta, or so it should because every builder has his "ideal" and a certain working paradigm. Working mostly inside that paradigm you can get very different sorts of rides but fits that all make do for you. This is sort of how I go about it. I'm not looking for the one perfect bike or to own one bike but for a promiscuity of cycling experience that gives me a taste of what each builder thinks is perfect. The results of these experiments have been costly especially when the ride has not been ideal or I blew it on sizing. At this point I rarely err in sizing but I have found that bikes ride differently more by design than by material (by a long shot).
The design of this Parlee Hampsten if fantastic and the ride is sublime and worth every penny. It is as nice a high zoot, last word, go for it super bike in modern terms as any I have ever ridden. But a perfect steel bike will be just as perfect 100 years from now, no?
yerpal, dbrk
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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>>I see so many bikes that look disproportioned and incorrect to my eye, not just because I'm a traditionalist. I have never, for example, seen such a thing happen with a Vanilla or a Sachs or a Hampsten, even when the bikes are all zooty and blingbling (in a good way, I mean that). But I see too many Serottas like that and it strikes me as odd that they get out the door looking like that.<<
On this point I could not agree with you more. It is a "pet peeve" of mine with all those "custom" funny looking bikes out there. My only thought is I hope they like them because they've got to be almost worthless on a resale value.
Those bike shots of Vanilla's are examples of perfectly balanced bicycles. It really doesn't matter if you like the color "vanilla" or "pea green" because you just look at those bikes and say wow!
I agree with the statement about every maker having a "catechism". I think that's largely correct and should be a major factor in what steers one to a certain brand (even though that "manufacturer's signature" can be corrected to an extent by moving saddle and stem around a bit). Much moreso than some of the things we sometimes think are improtant, like, for example, weld quality (not that it isn't important but it'd be down my list if the other aspects of the ride I valued were there (handling, quickness/stiffness, comfort--both road feel and fit, how do you feel when you climb/hammer/sprint/spend all day on the bike...does it work for you?)
The Parlee is a beautiful bike. It'd be fun to compare with the Calfee.
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Rode both bikes this afternoon and there is a noticeable difference in stiffness. I can feel road shock more in the Parlee. The Calfee rides smoother. Both descend superbly and both ascend responsively. After describing how the Parlee felt on the road, my wife noted, "so now you have your billion dollar Cannondale."  I responded, "The Parlee is for racing and the Calfee is for everything else."
Hopefully, I will get more miles in....soon.
Richard
p.s. the Parlee's carbon fiber finish is beautiful. It has a sheen to it that reminds me of our black cat's fur when he suns himself. pppurrrrrrr.....
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Does rider fitness affect ride perception? I finally had good sensations in the legs today and practised cornering on a neighborhood loop. The Parlee felt like a TGV; All motion is forward and surprisingly supple. No overt harshness. This is going to get better as I improve fitness. Yes, it is the rider stupid!...but what a bike the Parlee is.
The qualities of the Z1 are showing themselve but insofar as I am capable of registering it through consistent training. Best of all the fit of this bike is close to perfect.
Thanks to Doug at Parlee for getting it right and working with me. And to Mr. Parlee for building such a fine work of art.
-R
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Rode an hour+ 2 min with my good friend who is in better riding condition and I did not get dropped! (It helps having friends who are merciful and do not relish ripping your legs off). I pleaded for an even tempo and we agreed on a 'recovery' excursion since he rode a superfast club ride yesterday. I was thankful that we avoided 'half-wheel hell' today but when you are having fun the tempo does not stay constant. It was cool today; grey overcast with light gusts so I used arm warmers and light weather gloves to take the edge off.
I believe we averaged about 30-32K/hr on a slightly hilly out and back route that was a good distance for me before getting gapped in the final sprint home. The Parlee gets substantial credit for allowing my out of shape self to stay in contact for the hour. Not to be repetitious but the fit of this bike is dialed in right. I spent considerable time (more than usual for me) in the drops on the flat. For the climbs my hands are on the bar tops w/ thumbless grip spinning with periodic out of saddle efforts to keep the muscles limber. We rode 'pianissimo' uphill and I felt well planted climbing in the saddle. It really is a joy riding this machine.
As Dbrk commented, the Parlee tracks well and going downhill is faultless. We acclerated to 64K/hr (40mph) on a longish but shallow descent and all was fine. The only disconcerting event today was feeling the back wheel skip laterally during a sprint at the bottom of another long downhill; not sure if my beat-up AM/C wheels were the cause but I have never experienced this sprinting on my Tetra. Perhaps it was a bump in the road. I will check this out later to confirm/deny if there is any issue with the rear end. In summary, this bike kicks ass.
-R
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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charlesf
new member
Reged: 03/18/04
Posts: 13
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Hi RDP,
Is the Z1 'off the peg' or did you have it customized? I know dbrk had his customized in a subtle way, so the the bike was less agressive. I suppose the Z2/Z3 models are more 'racy' since they're only available as is. If I ever did go for a Parlee, it'd be the Z2/Z3, not the Z1.
Charles
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Charles,
My Parlee has custom geometry. BTW - the Z2 and Z3c are impressive.
-R
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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charlesf
new member
Reged: 03/18/04
Posts: 13
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Thanks.
What custom decisions did you make? Would you know if the Z2 and Z3 are built like Calfees, which are 'fast' bikes? The Tetra and Luna are obviously cheaper than the Z2 and Z3, so I'm wondering if the Parlees are clearly better in some way (the 'off the peg' Parlees).
Charles
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Charles,
Please keep rider and riding context in mind but I understand your concern w/ making an expensive purchase on something as subjective as a bicycle.
I will temporarily attach an annotated image in the forum gallery showing my frame specs. After you see it I'll remove it so as not to bore everyone.  It may help you understand what customizations I made in the face of an 'off the peg' choice. I chose the Z1 tubing because I wanted a frame with race characteristics that I could take on a century. I asked for a longer head tube with a slight upward slope to address comfort while in the drops (and I feel quite comfortable in the drops). I have yet to ride a century on the Z1 but it will be fun trying. Disclaimer: This may be completely irrelevant due to body type differences and because what you want to do with your bike is your personal choice.
Comparing Parlees and Calfees is interesting (see my previous posts) as they are completely different bikes IMO. The Calfee has a uniquely comfortable ride and the Parlee seems super responsive and fun to ride fast. Design and material choice are obvious factors but carbon is not a monolithic material that gives off a particular ride characteristic (love it or hate it). 1Centaur made an interesting comment that, "CF is in a different league, though some of the lightest CF coming out now (Orca) is losing its ability to mute vibrations" I believe he is right so be careful what you wish for. Bottom line is that carbon is a diverse material that is tailorable to your riding preferences.
Not to insult your intelligence but I recommend you find a fit specialist who can help you start the bike design. You can then take your measurements and work w/ ParleeCycles on whether a standard size or custom is right for you. oh, and one gratuitous plug for CalfeeDesign...check them out too. The fit will be worth the $$. My first effort at customization resulted in a slightly longer top tube than required. Well, hope this helps
-R
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