RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Hello,
Just wanted to test the BFC’s cool polling function and give a different twist to the ‘what kind of wheels should I get thread.’ 
Purpose: Please help me choose what wheels I should get for my forthcoming Parlee Z1. Or let me know what you would use and why. I’ve been spending way too much time thinking about this and lurking for ideas & solutions.
Background: Riding preferences: Quick impulsive riding mixed w/ extensive time off the bike. However, have ridden many metric centuries. Interested in racing but only fit enough to race ‘c’ category crits. Raced cyclocross this year with surprising results but this is another thread. Weigh in the low 150s but has the potential to balloon up to the 190s. Favorite rides are nice tempo excursions with friends in any beautiful countryside that always reminds me of why I ride at all. Oh, price might be an issue as I am a cheapo at heart but I can always be convinced otherwise.
Choose/vote from my short list (these are not listed in any order of preference) Results will be available 1 Jan 04. 
Happy new year and thank you for voting!
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Campy Hyperon Ultra Clinchers
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American Classic Sprint 350s
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American Classic 420 clinchers
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Reynolds Stratus DV clinchers
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Campy Neutron clinchers
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Mavic Ksyriums (04 silver)
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Other (but pls reply w/ your write in candidate)
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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dbrk
contributor
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 201
Loc: Finger Lakes, New York
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Well, I too am sorta' cheap in some ways and think that pre-built wheels are often way more expensive than they are actually better. Of all the pre-builts I prefer the Campagnolo Protons. Why? They are cheap, they hold up well, they seem light to me, I don't much like sew-ups anymore because I can't be bothered (and those who say they are no bother or less bother are just plain better than me) and they come in perfectly good clinchers, and they look the part for a modern bike like a Parlee. Almost all of the wheels you listed are either waaaay over-priced (Reynolds comes to mind) or are fine but too stiff (Ksyriums) or I wouldn't trust them for long term reliability (AmClassics or ANYTHING by Spingery). For a better alternative why not get a 28 CPX-33 laced to a nice hub and have some real ace build them. That's what I'm currently doing to replace some of my older pre-builts.
I ride wheels basically until they fail. On traditional bikes, not like a zoot thing like a Parlee, I usually look for Open Pros or MA3s laced to Ultegra hubs. Why? Waaay cheaper than DA hubs and they last forever and look just right. Good tires cost a bundle but there's no point riding cheap ones, that being a sure way to ruin a good ride. But not all inexpensive tires are cheap, those Conti 2000s come to mine.
All of the wheels you list are too costly for me. This sounds silly considering what a Z1 costs but as I see it, it's sort of a cost/benefit. I might not reallllly believe that the Parlee is worth the mark up, but I wanted one and other custom carbon alternatives have never appealed to me as much (round tubes, design issues, etc., apologies to you Calfee-guys but I don't get it...). I suppose I just don't get all jonesin' for wheels because I really can't say the really expensive ones are worth it for the ride.
dbrk
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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dbrk,
Thanks for the reply. Your Z1 with Protons exude a classy pragmatism. I am considering doing the same. Makes real sense after reading your post. I use Open Pros on the Tetra with only one broken spoke so far. 28 hole 650c CXP-33s adorn the spouse's bike.
I do have a pair of Am Classic 350s (in the 03' design). They are silly light and were great for run ups and going out of true (I was dumb enough to think they would be cross-worthy). 
So true about all this 'jonesin' as you say. Concur with the feeling on the 'P' markup.
take care,
Richard
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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1centaur
journeyman
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 126
Loc: Massachusetts
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I am also in the 150s and ride rolling hills near where Parlee makes his bikes. Since I am not time trialing, and Mass. gets windy, I'll take climbing wheels over aero wheels. I think black spokes look better, and fewer spokes look cooler, and at our weight we have that option. I also think low/no maintenance and smooth rolling hubs are very important.
All of the above is why I pick Neutrons (which I cast my vote for in your poll). They don't cost the earth (and deals can be found), by going consistently with Neutrons I can switch front wheels between bikes and not look mismatched (saving money), they are in the lightness range of wheels that cost more and their owners love them, and I have had not problems on multiple sets over several years. Some say getting tires on is harder than for some wheels - I don't have strong thumbs so I can't comment (it does seem hard, but that's also the case with my Bontrager X-Lites). Sure I'd like the Reynolds clinchers, but the hub maker is not as well liked and I would feel like a fool in 3-4 years when they are half the price. Other wheels in the poll have had aspersions on quality/reliability.
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"You never make a gift of Ventoux"
Eddie Merckx to Lance Armstrong
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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1Centaur,
Thank you for the feedback on the Neutrons...certainly a short list candidate and it's good to know your experience has been positive with them over time. We too have plenty of punchy hills in the local area so a high-profile rim is not mission critical. Ever visit the Parlee factory? Are you in the market for one or do you already own one?
take care,
Richard
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audissix
friend
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 25
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Hi, I have a Parlee Z1 on order as well and everything is picked out (Campy Record group) excepet the wheels. I have been leaning toward the Campy Eurus or Dave's Speed Dreams. I weigh 163 lbs. so I could ride just about anything. Of course money is an issue so I want to keep it under $650.00. The Eurus can be found for around $600 and Speed Dreams are around $575 plus additional for skewers. Have you checked either of these out?
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Congrats on your new Z1. Are you going w/ 04' Record? A carbon crank to boot? I have not looked in detail at the wheels you mentioned (but they've had favorable reviews in these forums). Honestly, the G3 spoke pattern does not light my fire and I've heard (again, via the forum) that if you break a rear spoke a G3 wheel is toast for the return ride(not sure to what extent spoke repair would cost in time & money). Have you test ridden the Eurus?
Thanks...looking forward to seeing your Z-bike in the gallery.
Richard
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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seingalt
new member
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 3
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I have my eye on some DT Swiss RR 1.1 Rims laced to DT's Onyx hubs. For more $$$ and lighter weight I would go with DTs 240 or Hugi hub set.
I have only heard great things about DT's new line of road rims.
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Checked the DT web site and it appears like the DT/Hugi combo would make a fine no-nonsense setup. Pls keep the forum posted if you build them.
Thanks,
R
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Kahuna
Forum Admin
Reged: 12/11/03
Posts: 162
Loc: Maui, Hawaii
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Topolino!
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1centaur
journeyman
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 126
Loc: Massachusetts
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Hey RDP:
I'm a huge fan of carbon, and Parlee has long been on my list of maybes. A few things have kept me from getting one:
The geometry does not knock me out - I like a little more laid back geometry for my style of riding.
The stock paint jobs are not my taste, and I have no sense of Parlee working with local paint guys to give owners what they want.
The expense level is high - Dragonfly or Colnago dollars - and the years of experience are low. Moreover, while there are a couple fo anecdotal positives in the air (Tyler; Ryan Sbaga as posted in the old Calfee forum), I am waiting for more data points to make me see why it would ride many (any?) dollars better than my Tetra. Much as comments about weld appearance on Ti frames do not make me want to buy a Ti frame without testing its ride, talk about the apparent build quality of Parlee are nice but not dispositive. Colnago's CF presentation at Interbike ("carbon like graph paper, made by Ferrari") was at least as impressive, and they care about their paint jobs.
I read a snide refernce on another forum about the wait time on Parlees. While the wait time of Calfees feels unbearable, it's not THAT long, and the customer service is great.
The world is filling up with attractive CF options (Argon 18; Kuota; my recently ordered Orbea Orca; Opera Leonardo; Bianchi Luna) and prices are dropping.
Bottom line - when I saw this forum, I had (one more) reason to be grateful to Kahuna - I'll get to hear real comments from real Parlee owners (including you) over time, giving me the kind of insight I got from the Calfee Forum before I bought my Tetra.
I look forward to it.
JB
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"You never make a gift of Ventoux"
Eddie Merckx to Lance Armstrong
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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JB,
Your concerns are understandable. I literally took almost a decade before purchasing my first Calfee (not including a brief affair with a Lemond carbon) from first eyes-on to final build. Thus, I missed out on the ti water bottle band era, loose dropouts, etc. But I could not be more satisfied with the ride quality and sheer good looks of my Tetra custom. Maybe, it does pay to wait?
Since I no longer have decades to wait between purchases, I decided to act sooner with a Parlee but probably a year too late IMO. Mr. Sbaga's reviews influenced me as well as other rider comments on this forum. It did not hurt that Tyler chose a Parlee during his Giro assault. This reminded me of Lemond, after the 90' tour, having the power to choose any team bike in the world, chose a Calfee (then Carbonframes). The historical 'rhyming' was intriguing.
Not sure why geometry was an issue in your case as my build will have a slack STA in a relatively small frame. There were some limitations with regards to HT length (and the overall frame size variables) but we ultimately struck a good solution. We'll see how this manifests itself out on the road.
As you indicated, 'build time' does not bother me either. In fact, it leaves me more time to blather endlessly on these forums about the bike. Put another way, customer service weighs heavily in the final decision. BTW -I too am thankful to the Big Kahuna for providing these knowledge communities. Unfortunately, my kitchen pass is being revoked for spending way too much time here.
Thanks for replying (and don't wait too long!) 
R
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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CPP
friend
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 35
Loc: Arbaz, Switzerland
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Hello JB
I am an owner of 2 Parlee's and I am really impressed by the looks and performance of the bikes. I happen to be a fan of clearcoat carbon frames as I find the carbon weave nice to look at. As for geometry goes, the custom frames will give you what you are looking for. If you aren't sure exactly, talk to Bob. He will walk through it with you. If you want comments on the ride, pick up a Parlee brochure. I have a paragraph in there about how the bike feels to me.
CP
Edited by CPP (12/29/03 02:07 PM)
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1centaur
journeyman
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 126
Loc: Massachusetts
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Your post (and the one following it) sent me back to the Parlee site for the first time in quite a while. I guess somewhere along the way I had missed the "custom no charge" element, or else at that point was not ready to specify my angles, and I had remembered a 74 HT angle (which I see on the Z2 vs the 73 I would most likely prefer) and the long top tube on stock frames. This time through I missed the cost of a frame - any comments on that score?
Any thoughts on paint, which is incredibly important to me?
Finally, any Parlee riders reading this, could you please give me a detailed review on ride qualities, particularly comfort for centuries, stiffness in the BB, sensation over bumps vs. other CF bikes (I have ridden the Tetra and the 5200 for comparison), "electricity" of the ride (Klein does that well); plus any concerns whatsoever about build quality or the buying experience or customer service (has customer service after the sale ever been needed?). What makes this bike better than any other top end CF bike?
Thank you.
JB
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"You never make a gift of Ventoux"
Eddie Merckx to Lance Armstrong
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BubbaTex
journeyman
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 56
Loc: Austin, Texas
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audissix - if you are looking at Speed Dream's, it might also be worth a look at:
http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/
Mike makes some cool wheels for a good price.
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"It is more important to do less more often than to do more less often" Ed Burke, PhD
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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JB,
I have to agree with CP on the clear coat. I would not want anything to cover up the carbon. However, I'm not consistent with this as my Tetra is painted Cobalt Blue and it does not disappoint the eye. There are many good painters out there but it is best to start the discussion w/ Parlee.
CP - I took out my old Parlee brochure (the frames have the old "ZED" decals on) and the quote of yours (I believe) is, "Parlee is building the premier carbon fiber bikes to be sold in this country." Correct? I assume Parlee updated your testimonial on the newer brochures?
On the question of price, see my previous post(s) (and dbrk's). IMO, I paid a premium for having waited too long to make a decision. But do not let this dissuade you. If the ride is as good as everyone says, then a few hundred $$ will not matter.
take care,
R
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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CPP
friend
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 35
Loc: Arbaz, Switzerland
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RDP,
No, actually my testimony is in the new brochure. Just for the record, I don't think that I would ever say that one frame is better than another. At certain categories , all frames could be considered at a same level of performance . In the end, it's a personal choice. My decision to go with a Parlee were for my own reasons. When I saw and rode my 1st frame (Z1), I ordered the second one (Z1x) right away.
I quess I will post the paragraph that is found in the new brochure. (soon)
CPP
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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oops.. sorry, for the misquote.
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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I voted for other - and would get Dave Thomas Speeddream wheels built custom for my (your) body, riding style and desires. I'm not affiliated with his business in any way other than being a very satisfied customer with two mtb wheels and 4 road wheels. He can build you just what you want for an extremely competitive cost (read way, way less money than any good boutique wheels). Just my 2 cents.
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Jeff,
Thanks...could you tell us more about your road wheels?
R
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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First, my info is this: 6'1", 185 lbs that loves to climb and descend. I ride 23c wheels usually at around 115 or 120 psi.
My first set were the "aerolite" wheels about two years ago. They're very similar to the aerolite listed here except that I went with a campy record rear derailleur and at the time they were spec'ed with american classic from hubs. Otherwise I think they were very similar: Sapim CX Ray spokes (front radial 18 spokes, rear 24 spokes, drive side 16 spokes 2 cross, non-drive 8 spokes 1 cross), Velocity rims. The pair without skewers was a hair over 1400 grams and about $500 at the time (maybe a hair less).
I've been very happy with them and had very few problems. The only problem I did have was with the same spoke breaking on the front wheel. It turns out it was a problem with that eyelet on the hub. Dave sent me a spoke washer and I never had that problem again. I just got The Art of Wheelbuilding by Gerd Schraner for christmas and there's a section in there on this very problem - with the exact same recommended solution.
Sadly, that front wheel recently died when it was run over repeatedly on the freeway after it fell out of the roof rack wheel mount. I ordered a replacement from Dave and it has the White Industries front hub but is otherwise the same.
My fourth road wheel from Dave was a slightly sturdier version of the aerolite rear wheel that I asked him to build me for commuting on my road bike. I can't recall the exact parts details off the top of my head but as I remember it has an offset spokebed velocity rim, DT spokes (more of them in a less agressive cross pattern) and I think it has a black velocity hub.
The funny thing is that I've found I like the additional stiffness of the "commuter" wheel as compared to the aerolite. I haven't yet put the aerolite back on after getting the commuter wheel. I plan to use the aerolite for races this season but who knows, I may just stick with the commuter. Again, I don't remember the exact weight for the commuter wheel but I think it wasn't too much heavier than the aerolite.
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Jeff,
Great info (and links)...thank you. Are you using the aerohead off-center rim on either of the rear wheels you described? Also, just to clarify, you use(d) the aerolites for racing only? The description and numbers look good. Losing the front wheel must have been awful. Did you recover it? It might make a unique road-war trophy.
BTW - are any of your bikes in the old photo gallery?
regards,
R
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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audissix
friend
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 25
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Bubbatex, thanks for the link, I'll check these wheels out.
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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I just looked at the new "commuter" rear and I am using the aerohed off-center rim on it. It is a velocity hub and there are 32 wheelshmith spokes. The drive side is 3x double butted (not sure what gauge) and the non-drive is 1x oval (bladed) - all wheelsmith.
I used the original aeroheds for all of my riding - training, racing and falling ;-) They held up very well and I expect the commuter rear will be just as durable - but time will tell. I put a bit over 8000 miles on the original aeroheds before the front was run over and I swapped out the rear for the commuter version. Both were (and the rear is still) running strong.
I did recover the front wheel - but it was so sad to look at that I got rid of it. There was nothing salvagable except the tire.
My bike is in the forum here with the original aerolites on it. I later changed the stem and seat positioning and you can see the update here. The latter picture is with both of the new wheels.
Cheers,
Jeff
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CPP
friend
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 35
Loc: Arbaz, Switzerland
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Hey Jeff,
How are those speedplay pedals? I've been using Campy profit for a long time and am thinking about switching.
Thanks
CP
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Kansas
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Kahuna,
Topolino owners sound consistent in their high praise of this wheelset's ride characteristics and performance. I assume you have raced these wheels, i.e. put them through tough workouts, high speed descents and serious island climbing sessions? Would you please provide more details on your experience with these wheels? My guess is that the carbon/kevlar spokes & spoke pattern is integral in this.
Thanks,
R
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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I love the Speedplay pedals. The only other pedal I've had (not counting mountain pedals) was the time equipe mag from about 12 years ago. I like the "float" in the times and so I tried the speedplays. There is absolutely no resistance to rotation in these pedals. This can be difficult to get used to for folks that are used to pedals with no float or float with resistance. Some folks say the pedal platform is too small but I haven't had any problems with discomfort or any feelings of instability - they've been great for me. I believe it's recommended that you're very careful installing the clean and are consistent in your cleat maintenance - but I haven't done either really and haven't had any problems in the last two years. Getting in happens without thought since I'm so used to them. Pedals are pretty personal I guess but these work very well for me.
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dyg2001
new member
Reged: 07/19/04
Posts: 1
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Quote:
BubbaTex wrote:
audissix - if you are looking at Speed Dream's, it might also be worth a look at:
http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/
Mike makes some cool wheels for a good price.
Wow, Mike's prices seem very reasonable. Do you have some of his wheels? Which ones?
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Merlin Extralight
Merlin XLM
IF Planet Cross
Cervelo P2K
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BikMagN8
new member
Reged: 04/16/04
Posts: 6
Loc: Seattle
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Y'all,
I'm riding the full-on Dt Swiss wheelset: RR 1.1 rims, 240s hubs, Aerolite bladed spokes. I love 'em; light, stiff, still true after over 1000 miles, easy to fix if needed, and FAST! My version is 32s front and rear in black, but they have a 28 spoke/radial front set available as well, and they should have a silver model soon.
I bought mine from the company, but the components are available through better bike shops everywhere, and the price should be not too outrageous.
For those who are interested in getting paint or tint on their Parlees - just ask. Parlee (and Hampsten Cycles) work with Carl at Vicious Cycles who does great paint work; we (Hampsten) also have paint done by TA Specialties here in Seattle. Yes, it takes time and adds expense, but it can look great when finished.
I'm just twidling my thumbs waiting for TA to finish the clearcoat on my new "Tour de Suisse" (Parlee Z3c, but pronounced "lay ter day sweeze") frame. Anybody have any comments on how these ride? At $1100 less than the Z1 frames you would think that someone had tried one...
Back on my head,
Steve Hampsten
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Luke
new member
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 2
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I have a Parlee Z3c size XL and have been riding it for nearly 4 months. The ride is aggressive, smooth and stiff. Not harsh or twitchy at all. It climbs without pause and descends with confidence. When pounding the only creaks come from me. Mine is gloss clearcoat and the build quality is what one expects- superb. The rear dropouts are finely machined and flow well into the large chainstays. I built it with Campy Record/FSA and matched it with an Alpha-Q Sub3 fork. One poster here wrote that he received his Parlee in three or four weeks. Mine took many, many months. This frame is so good I've nearly forgotten about the wait.
Luke
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flythebike
captain
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 272
Loc: N. Virginia, USA
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Coombe pedals are a great alternative to Speedplays. They are as light or lighter and I think are better in terms of durability. Double sided entry, w/all metal pedal and cleat, no springs, adjustible non-recentering float. www.coombe.com. I switched from Time equippe ti/mags to Time Impact Mags and after a year on those (they're nice) I got the Coombes. They have a 30 day money back guarentee.
I know they're different than what you're looking for but I love my Zipp 202s. They are lighting fast and they don't seem fragile, although I've only had them for a few weeks at this point. I'm going to enjoy riding them everyday until I get a Campy Conversion Cassette for my Chris King/DT Revolution/Mavic Reflex Tubular wheelset (1400gms). Yes I (generally) ride tubulars everyday. I guess I just enjoy smelling glue and the occassional whiff of mineral spirits.
I'll reiterate here that Velomax makes real nice clincher wheels here in the USA. Very tough and pretty fast. But I have to say that I'm a fan of handbuilt wheels for overall ride feel. Pairing those Chris King hubs and DTs with a good clincher rim would make a nice pair of lightweight wheels too. This thread has made me think about picking up a pair of the Campy wheels with the shallow section for commuting.
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Re: Poll: New Wheels for Parlee Z1