Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Are you just 'thinking' about one? Care to tell us about what you are considering?
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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dbrk
contributor
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 201
Loc: Finger Lakes, New York
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My thinking doesn't run to if but only when. I've seen your bike, Dave, and now Aimee's HelloK, I'm smitten.
I'm not sure but perhaps I am letting the cat out of the bag....I don't recall Dave asking me _not_ to say anything...
I've proposed a version of the Montana Road Bike but built for centerpull brakes rather than cantilevers. It would have the proper pivots on which to mount the brakes (these are a braze-on). In addition, DK showed me his curvey seatstay design, a kind of DKS without the suspension, sort of. They look pretty wild but somehow I think it would be tres cool. I'd go for lugged, level top tube, threaded steerer, dt bosses, the rest very traditionalist ('cause, well, that's my style).
The "problem" is that I have too many things on the plate right now so I am reluctant to get in deeper here...the bill will come due and that may be more than one bike. I need to space things out a bit...
Incoming: old 1965 Rene Herse road bike, Nagasawa, Pegoretti BLE and Luigino, hopefully a Hampsten Giro '88 with last generation match-Paramount lugs...yikes,
dbrk
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DaveN
new member
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 33
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Dbrk! Oh no! You have broken the Siegfried Oath! The dread Curse of Chomp the Wonder Beaver shall follow you all of your days! You will be doomed to wander the forests endlessly, lusintg after birch trees, and slapping your tail on the water at the first sign of a boy scout approaching!
For shame. For shame.
Can't recall if Dave said to keep it secret or not. Oh well, it sure ain't anymore at this point. Dave N.
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Time Wounds All Heels
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Climb01742
journeyman
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 71
Loc: Concord, MA
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awhile ago david k. sent me photos of his curved seatstays. i thought it was, technically, a very cool idea. but my biggest reaction was based on visuals. every other tube on the frame was a normal diameter, while the curved seatstays were very thin. visually the balance looked odd. again, purely a visual reaction. my LBS still has a spanking new DKS hors hanging, unbuilt, from its ceiling. damn, i'm tempted. but in comparison, its seatstays "balance" with the rest of the frame.
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When in doubt, shut up and pedal.
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Mmmmmmmmmmm, (best Homer Simpson imitation) Hors Categorie!
I really, really would like to find one, even near my size. So in your wanderings if you come across a 59,60 or 61 Hors, please let me know.
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Climb01742
journeyman
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 71
Loc: Concord, MA
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dave t, i'll check the size. pretty sure its closer to my numbers than yours. maybe a 55 or 56. but if its in your ballpark, i'll definitely drop you a line.
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When in doubt, shut up and pedal.
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Climb, if it's your size you should buy the darn thing. One of the 3 best bikes that you'll ever own!
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Climb01742
journeyman
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 71
Loc: Concord, MA
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ok, dave, i'll bite. what are the other two?
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When in doubt, shut up and pedal.
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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The Kirk is one, and I haven't found the other yet. I'm still looking.
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Climb01742
journeyman
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 71
Loc: Concord, MA
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it was 53 here today. yippee! got in almost 3 hours on my kirk fillet compact. yippee! very sweet. all i can say is, thank you, mr. kirk.
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When in doubt, shut up and pedal.
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Maybe a second Kirk.
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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dbrk
contributor
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 201
Loc: Finger Lakes, New York
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Not quite yet...I want a MRB with the curvey stay option, dt bosses, oldschool style build but for this innovation...but it has to wait. There is a 1965 Rene Herse to pay for this month and the newold 84 Sachs arrives tomorrow. Yikes!
But hopefully by spring I will have my finances in order. I lust very few bikes anymore. Lucky me. I have just about everything I even could want...but I have to have a Kirk. After taking delivery of Aimee's HelloKitty Special Edition, I am smitten. That 'lil bike is just a thing of beauty and elegance, just so brilliantly done. Well, there I go again...
So a few months for me...after taxes, unfortunately.
dbrk
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Cranky
new member
Reged: 12/30/03
Posts: 12
Loc: Sausalito, California
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I am seriously considering one but I too am expecting delivery of a new bike, a Ron Cooper from London, any day now. But I too am smitten and bitten by the lure of a beautiful, custom built steel lugged bike. After all, a man cannoy have too many 2 wheeled toys. I may have to take a little sortie up to Bozeman after the snow melts.
Dave T., are you planning on a second Kirk?
Cranky
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Dunno yet. I've got a Ti bike on the way. Should be in next week. That will give me something to play with for awhile. Also just got a fixie, and hopefully the ice will melt here (it was -21 Monday!) so I can ride the dang thing and see if I can hurt myself.
I do have the jones for another bike, but I haven't quite identified which itch to scratch yet.
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
Edited by Dave_Thompson (01/09/04 07:59 PM)
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ggg
new member
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 3
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I just talked to Dave this week. Dave was a delight to talk to. I am considering either one of his or a Richard Sachs. This is a tough decision for me as there is no question about the quality of each. I like certain things about each. I am currently riding a Waterford 1100 and am looking for a fast, comfortable, long distance frame. Thoughts?
GGG
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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I have the first Kirk built for a customer. Read my "Kirk Ride Report" on the old Serotta forum here: http://www.hydromedia.com/serotta/read.php?f=1&i=48532&t=47393#reply_48532
I've also expressed my feelings about my Kirk here: http://www.bikefanclub.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=819&password=&sort=1&cat=518&page=1
The key to getting the bike you want is to let the builder know how you intend to use it. You will spend a fair amount of time in a two-way dialog with a builder, both you and he asking questions and listening well. Let him design the frame and select the tubeset. If you have been realistic and honest with your builder, you will get the bike that suits your needs.
Dave Kirk is a very accomplished bicyclist in addition to being a hell of a good fabricator. My experience with him was first-class all the way. It took me about five months to "interview" all the builders that I had considered, and Dave Kirk was my ultimate choice. Some of his customers have had more than one bike built by Dave. That speaks very well for him.
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Jack_brunk
friend
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 41
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I just took the plunge and ordered a Kirk steel fillet compact frame. I will be using it like my Seven and Serotta to do double centuries. It will have a 6-8 degree slope TT but I'am not sure of the color scheme yet. can't wait.
Jack
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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Finalized it the other day. Now I wait.
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Terry: What is Dave building for you? We need details!!
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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Very similar to the bike described by Jack Brunk below - semi-compact, fillet brazed, 57ish. I'm going with a Ouzo Lite though. Color should be a sage green. Looking forward to it.
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Jack_brunk
friend
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 41
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Terry,
Are you going to have two forks or just the carbon ? While discussing forks with Dave, He wants to make the steel fork so he can control the handling and straightness of the frame. I would be more interested in a carbon fork also. I will speak to Dave when he gets back in town on Thursday.
Jack
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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Hi Jack - yes, Dave made it clear to me that he needs the fork to properly build the frame. I bought one and drop-shipped it to him so that he could get the exact measurements. Otherwise, it would've been steel, and while I really like idea of going all steel, I have different plans for this bike. Hence the choice of carbon.
I thought it was pretty funny that you and I ordered very similar bikes on about the same day. Small world, eh?
tb
Edited by terryb (03/10/04 03:38 AM)
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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How did you guys find the 'buying' experience from Dave? My Kirk was my first custom made bike and I went through all kinds of mental gymnastics trying to figure out how to convey what I wanted without dictating to him how to build the bike. In the end, Dave was such a good listener, he let me talk on and on about what I liked in bikes, what I didn't and what I thought worked for me and he was able to build me exactly what I had described.
I've sent him my frame last month to have the "Terraplane" option (curved seat stays) put on and a re-paint. I should have it back in a week or so. The timing is perfect, it's getting nice and warm and I'm tired of riding my Litespeed.
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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This is my third custom and I'd put Dave at the top of the list for listening and discussing. I knew exactly what I wanted going in, and he moved me in a slightly different direction, a compromise between what he likes to do and what I wanted to do. And for some very reasonable technical reasons that I had not thought about.
Though we've just entered the build process, his follow-up has been great. In comparison to my other two bike building experiences (let's call them A and B,) Builder A was very communicative, willing to chat, even helped me out with a build I was doing unrelated to the bike he was putting together for me. Always gave the impression of a willingness to talk regardless of how silly my question might be or when I called. Builder B was a lot more in reticent, didn't always answer email, left it up to me to find out what was going on, pushed back on some of my ideas rather strongly. I'd do another bike with Builder B in a minute, but with lowered expectations for the experience. I'd also do a second bike with Builder A, again expecting it to be a lot of fun. So far, I'm having a great time doing this one with Dave.
Seems they're all different, it's just a matter of what you want to get out of it. Dave's a great one if you're looking to develop the best customer-provider relationship despite it being long distance. In the case of Builder B above, I can see where people might expect more given their investment, and end up not getting it. I think when people stick their neck out (financially as well as buying something sight unseen) they may expect to be ushered through the process. My first custom experience was just that way, and I'm glad it was. Had it not been, I'm not sure I would've developed the confidence to go for a second one.
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Jack_brunk
friend
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 41
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Terry,
Thanks for the reply. What are your plans for the bike ? I will be using mine for double centuries and I have never ridden a steel fork for more than 40-50 miles. I am not sure what to do at this point. BTW it is a small world.
Jack
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Jack: I'll interject here about steel forks. I have one on my Kirk, which is my long-distance bike, and when I have another bike built it will be with a steel fork. The best comparison I can give is with my first Serotta, an Atlanta. It had the standard steel fork and I rode that bike for perhaps a thousand miles then changed out the steel fork for a carbon. It completely changed the characteristics of the bike, some good but mostly not good. The rake of both forks was the same, but the bike became slightly more 'nervous' with the carbon fork. Not twitchy, but I could feel every little pebble on the road. Handling etc., were not changed but the bike wasn't as much fun to ride.
The Kirk is a very competent bike, I've done some descents that have been over 45mph and with a feeling of great confidence. Yet the whole bike feels relaxed, not 'nervous'. I attribute a bunch of that to the build, geometry, tubeset, and more than a little to the fork. On rough surfaced roads (a ton of them around here) I can look down and watch the fork working like crazy.
A well made, well designed steel fork, IMO, is just the ticket for loooong rides. Dave can build it to suit you perfectly, like he did for me.
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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It's my springtime once in a lifetime lightweight steel project. Not really interested in making it a long haul bike, I've got several of those already. This year, instead of adding bikes (I've got 11 pretty nice roadbikes already, this makes 12) I'm going to blow money on making one of them special. (last year I added 3 bikes, this year no more than 2 of which this is #2) This one is in that vein. I'm trying to build one really light bike, but with a nice, solid, well built steel frame. Not absurdly light (have a couple of Al bikes that meet that criteria.) And, I really wanted one by DK since I think his stuff is gorgeous. So my plans are to build it slowly with ridiculously expensive lightweight parts and see what I end up with.
I think Dave T is on the money - nothing better than a well executed steel fork for long haul pleasure. I have one bike like that already or I'd be doing this one that way too. Variety is the spice of life.
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Jack_brunk
friend
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 41
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Thanks guys. I spoke to Dave Kirk today at length concerning the steel fork issue. He agreed with what both of you have stated that the steel fork will be better over long distances versus the carbon fork. Terry, I will be doing the same weight shaving build like yourself. I will be using Topolinos wheels, Campy record 10 components, zero gravity brakes, FSA compact cranks to hopefully have a 17-17.5 pound bike. Again, thanks to both of you for your input.
Jack
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Your weight goal should be very doable. My Kirk with some heavy components (Brooks saddle, wheels with PhilWood hubs, 2 stainless bottle cages) came in at 21.75 pounds.
When is your new Kirk going to be ready?
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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You're doing a lot more of it than I am. With that set of specs you should hit 17ish without any problem. The Vanilla I just completed came in at 18.4, and I could easily save another pound or more Speedplays, a lighter fork, stem and saddle. I expect about the same with the Kirk using Chorus and a set of custom wheels built on Hugi hubs and Ritchey rims.
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Jack_brunk
friend
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 41
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Terry,
Thanks for the feedback. My next issue is with the paint. I am having trouble deciding on what paint scheme to choose from. I like the old 7-11 scheme but I am also thinking about a liquid copper on the front half with a fade to black on the back half. What color are you painting yours ? Sounds like we will have work started on the bikes next week.
Jack
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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I'm going with a light sage green color similar to the bike that is in Dave's gallery (the one with the white lugs.) That with the blue/black decal set. I'm going really subtle.
Edited by terryb (03/11/04 01:58 AM)
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Jack_brunk
friend
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 41
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Dave just sent me pictures of my new frame. They look great and its really cool to see things in the rough. I should be getting more pictures today and if things go as planned, it will be off to cycle fantasy on Friday.
Jack
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terryb
friend
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 39
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Fantastic. I've been poring over my photo too. Lots of fun watching it come together.
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Terry and Jack: Post pics of your frames on the Kirk photo gallery!
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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