PdxMark
new member
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 5
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It seems like it's demand and possibly refinery capacity, but I don't really know. OPEC isn't putting the screws to anyone, I think. Iraq's supply is on-again, off-again, but that doesn't seem to be a big enough variation. Things in Venzuela have stabilized from the chaos of last year. So what's the deal?
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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They do it because they can!
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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easypedaler
contributor
Reged: 02/08/04
Posts: 149
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I think DT hit it on the mark. They do b/c they can. Why are house prices so HIGH. They do it b/c they get the $$$$ for it.
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ColnagoFE
new member
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 22
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Every friggin Memorial day the gas prices rise. If I could isolate the idiot that is reponsible! Why I oughtta....and they always have some excuse abuot OPEC. Methinks that the gas producers do it on purpose because they know they can rake it in over holidays. Face it. They have us by the shorthairs. Unless you get off the grid you are going to have to buy gas in some form or other.
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Gasoline is a commodity, like beef or gold. The prices rise and fall based on supply and demand. The prices are raised during the summer driving season every year. What are you going to do if you don't like it? Not drive? Our dependence on the car as primary transportation has led directly to this and many other ills, both social and monetary.
I'd be will to wager dollars to donuts that no one is willing to tax themselves to pay for, and maintain a really good mass transit system in their city.
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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1centaur
journeyman
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 126
Loc: Massachusetts
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Low refinery capacity, in conjunction with seasonal environmental regulations, means that the RIGHT supply can get very tight in a predictable seasonal pattern. Changing environmental regs. would certainly help, but these days there is a $10 terrorism premium in oil prices, and Asian demand for oil is also extremely high and likely to stay that way for year, other than during economic hiccups. Iraq's recent terminal damage does not help in the short-term.
Apparently some major gasoline supply on tankers heading for U.S. shores to arrive in July. OPEC if anything will need to loosen production so as not to choke off the U.S. consumer.
For me, 40 cents a gallon translates to less cost in a year than a Dura-Ace crank; both increase as the dollar weakens.
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"You never make a gift of Ventoux"
Eddie Merckx to Lance Armstrong
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Dave aka Captain Dave,
Quote:
I'd be will to wager dollars to donuts that no one is willing to tax themselves to pay for, and maintain a really good mass transit system in their city.
Where I live we are taxed up the wazoo in county taxes for our local transit system and they get Federal and state money as well. Without tax money mass transit would only exist where it was profitable. Now our local transit wants to dig the most expensive light rail tunnel ever (about 1/2 of a Billion) to cross a river and stop. There is a bridge they could use and they have a huge deficit but hey it is tax money who cares? If nobody would vote for taxing for mass transit it is because of what we receive now for big bucks spent from local, state and Federal monies.
Now about it being good mass transit that is another story... 
Lon
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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I wasn't referring to any particular mass transit system, just in general. I frankly don't think that today's people could wean themselves from autos. The car has become an appendage to us.
But for 'us' to give up out cars, we would have to have a safe, reliable, convenient way to get to work/play etc. But for a mass transportation system to be built it would have to be profitable, which means that we have to give up our cars and ride it. Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 373
Loc: Never where I want to be
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This country is too spread out for mass transit. Unless you're in a population-dense city, where you can walk to the station, and then walk to where you need to go at the other end, forget it. Even the drive-to and park-at stations, you still need cars, and you still won't be able to walk to where you need to go (work, store) when you get to the other end. Not without building a gajillion stops along the way. Forget that people live spread apart, the cities and business centers are spread all over as well. The country wasn't planned, designed or built to make mass transit wholisitically feasible. We should be bitching about more efficient autos and developing cleaner energy sources. Adding extra asphalt to the sides of roads so people can ride their bikes. Giving tax credits to build and open business in specific clusters to make mass transit somewhat reasonable. There is zero big-picture long-term thinking going on to make mass workable, and we're stuck with a infrastructure design that makes it next to impossible. Besides, I like living out in the country.
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Allan
journeyman
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Bds,W I
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Hello Nev,
You are so right with your mass transit reply and until something is done to change the general mindset of those involved and effect change soon nothing is going to happen.
This is not an overnight solution to a long time problem but we need to start looking more seriously at alternative plans as well as "clean" fuels, therefore killing the huge dependency on fossil fuels for automobiles.
You think people would get smart and be consious of the effect on their envionment, but they continually demand more supersized SUVs with some giving as little as 7 miles to the gallon in some instances,and the automakers driven by greedy public demand only add more fuel to the fire.
We all need to do our part, "what are people doing!", its not a case of sit back and watch your fellow man, we need to get our act together.
I already drive a diesel powered vehicle that gives exceptional milage, in so much that i literally only visit the gas station once a month on average. Thank goodness for bikes and country living.
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Its time to ride.
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PdxMark
new member
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 5
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I agree that conventional American urban/suburban layout makes mass transit difficult, but here in Portland we've learned over the past 20 years that mass transit can effect a change in the urban/suburban layout. In our case it's been light rail.
The first light rail leg went in 20 years ago. The at first suburbs hated it... felt that it was being shoved down their throats. They wanted PAVEMENT. But what has happened is that light rail stations have become anchors for denser retail and residential development. The result is that places which were previously generic, soul-less, auot-centric stink pits have evolved into economically and physically dynamic centers where people live, shop and walk. The suburbs that at first hated the light rail line coming to them now appreciate how a bit of density and vitality can bring stinky car thoroughfares back to live. Those centers are the most dynamic parts of those towns.
Part of the original thinking was that the stations should have "park & ride" parking areas at these stations. But the experience with retail and residential development has taught us that a huge parking lot is the last thing you want to put at a station (in most cases). Why bury a prime residential/retail development spot under parking lot asphalt?
So the second round of light rail development was routed through areas that were both existing suburban centers and areas that what were essentially greenfields slated for development. The result has been lots of successful retail/residential development at those sites. (At one of those sites the developer ran into financial problems and development languished, but I think that problem reflects much more on the developer than the principle, which has been successful at each other stop.)
These first two lightrail lines run mainly along congested freeway corridors. The rail lines carry about the equivalent of 1.5 lanes of traffic at peak times. Both corridors are crowded into gullies or between hills, making freeway expansion virtually impossible.
Also, ridership on the rail lines on Saturdays is close to the weekday ridership. That means people use rail not just for work. They use it for different activities, like sports games, downtown activities, and maybe whatever happens in the suburbs...
So, rail can't solve all problems, and doesn't effect change instantaneuously, but it has worked here. No place with a population of more than a million people or so has EVER been able to build enough roads to eliminate congestion. Rail offers another transportation option and can help shift the development mindset to offer a non-auto-centric option for folks.
Edited by PdxMark (05/24/04 06:18 PM)
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OldEd
contributor
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 117
Loc: The Great South
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for "greens" is to buy gas guzzlers and drive the hell out of them. Burn as much gas as possible. We'll never be shed of those infernal gasoline engines until we use all the damn stuff up. THEN people will accept alternate means of transport. WOn't happen until the nasty stuff is gone, gone, gone.
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Cory
new member
Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 16
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We actually get a pretty big break on gas prices in the U.S.: we pay a lot less than the world average price, and also less than the "real" cost of gas when you factor in its effects on health, the environment etc. Both are over $4 per gallon.
What amazes me is that the Saudis et al. keep prices as low as they do. The U.S. is hooked hard, 5 percent of the world's people using 25 percent of its energy, and our reserves are tiny. We can't begin to produce all the fuel we need. What's to keep them from just saying, "Oil is $100 a barrel starting right now, and if you don't want to buy it, we'll sell it to the Chinese"?
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1centaur
journeyman
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 126
Loc: Massachusetts
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The U.S. economic engine has long driven the world, thanks to our combination of freedom (including relatively [not absolutely] low taxation) and natural resources. $100 oil severely retards that engine, slowiing down everybody else (and particularly China), which hurts Saudi Arabia today and forces increased work on alternative fuels so that the Saudis are irrelevant tomorrow. As China diversifies its demand base, its sheer size and early stage of growth may make its oil demand provide cover for price increases (some think $80 a barrel is coming in a few year), but if Russia can get its act together there's a lot of oil contiguous to China which puts the Saudi's at a disadvantage again. Bottom line: The Saudi's want a vibrant U.S. (the world's police force) to support their industry economically and politically.
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"You never make a gift of Ventoux"
Eddie Merckx to Lance Armstrong
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Mike
contributor
Reged: 12/25/03
Posts: 101
Loc: Oregon
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Mark,
I'm all for mass transit, and I would love to use the westside light rail, but Metro has not made it practical for me to do so.
After I drive the 10-15 minutes or so to the Sunset parking lot, I usually find that I can't find a parking spot. Then I backtrack to the Merlo lot, get on a train that makes 6 or 7 stops before it gets back to where I started. In the process, I have used as much gas as i takes me to get downtown, and have spent an extra 45 minutes doing so. Even in rush hour traffic, I can get downtown in my car in 30 minutes. And to top it off, the round trip fare is about the same cost as parking.
For most suburbanites, MAX costs more and takes significantly longer than driving, that is the reason people who can't walk to a station will not use it. Even those who would love to burn less gas.
Mike
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