skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 322
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On a ride this weekend, I swapped bikes with somebody who was having problems with her front derailleur. I was gonna try and diagnose and fix while riding. It is a relatively new Specialized something-or-another and the same size as my Tetra, so it was convenient for us to switch.
I immediately noticed the the brake hoods are very high on the bars and the bars are rotated in the stem to effectively make the hoods even higher. The bottom of the drops are NOT parallel (or even close) to the ground. This made for a VERY upright riding position. I asked her about this setup and she said it's always been that way and that's how the LBS fit her. The shop is a fairly high end shop and she paid for a fitting service (versus having some "kid" tell her that "looks about right").
I realize that I have my bike set up in the "old school" manner (mid 1980s). My hoods are low and I'm stretched out quite a bit. But I've been riding that way since the 80s and have the flexibility to do so. Besides, it's comfortable for me even on extended day rides and touring. I even have my mt bike set up similarly, which is converse to the entire notion that mt bikes are supposed to be more upright and thus more comfortable.
Anyhow, my question is what is the reason behind having the hoods so high and creating such an upright position. I know that Calfee offers extended head tubes and the vogue riding position is more upright, but is it entirely for comfort? Better breathing by opening up the torso? Lower back relief?
BTW, I have no issues with somebody being more comfortable on their bike, I'm just curious. I'm not (so) masochistic as to want to be UNcomfortable, but I found her bike to be very awkward when tucked in low on the hoods. I was trying to get more aero on a downhill and found my arms and elbows getting in the way. I also found it impossible to have a straight wrist alignment.
To each his/her own, but why is the trend the way it is?
Thanks,
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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Skuke,
I found the same thing when I got fitted for my Calfee 2 years ago. I had the traditional mounting of the brake hoods in the center of the bend, and the handle bar tops sloping down to the brake hoods. That bike was built in 1989 and had not changed much.
The new bike was built the way you described, and it felt much better. I even reconfigured my touring bike the same way. It felt better as well.
I did notice on the old touring bike (with the bars from the 1989 bike) that the drops now point down much more than before, as I had rotated the bars up some. I think they were pretty much flat before.
On the new Calfee, the drops point straight back, so the bar is different than the original bar. Looking at other recent bikes, I think this is the new norm.
I find it works well.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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My Position
This isn't the best picture to show my updated position but I agree with Bruce completely...now there is a first!  When I went from Ultegra to D/A a friend setting up the bike who I trust explicitly set it up with the hoods higher and the bar tilted up some. He reads a great deal, works at a top high end shop, races, has people like Tom Kellog call to talk etc. I had never liked the "look" of it when I saw it in photos but I had wondered about it when I started to notice it in Velo.
Well the long and short of it is after a ride it was let's change the other bikes. Now the three bikes I ride the most are all set up the same way. I just plain old like it and my speed if anything is higher. It sure did not decrease. Just like Bruce I just like it better.
My bike is not as radical as the one you describe. We moved the hoods up on the bar and we did not just rotate the bar as radically. Also my drop position although is has an upward tilt is not such that I feel as if my hands will slide off to the rear.
The first time I noticed this position in the pros was a picture of Lance and a couple of Postal riders. His were up, as was one other rider. Ironically the rider in the traditional position was Fast Freddy the ex mt. biker.
I don't know if just "fooling" around with your bike is the way to change to a new position. When my friend did the first set-up that we based the other bikes upon we had the bike in a trainer, surrounded by mirrors, and with all the great fitting helps he had. We then did the other two the same way eventually. He did more than just move the hoods but I'm not sure what. Each time we were building a frame up with new parts.
I remember reading about Lance back around the start of the 5 wins commenting that he now rode higher and used the hoods more. He was saying you did not have to be low to be fast. He sure has proven that!
Take care.
Lon 
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 322
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Well, perhaps I'll try it in small increments by rotating the bars. ...don't wanna constantly rewrap my bar tape. I'm only hesitant to try (at least in a big jump) because I tend to be sensitive to wrist angle. If ride more than 10-15 miles with my hoods anywhere but where they are now, my hands go numb. ....yes, I vary positions on the bars while riding.
I was just checking if this new hood position was the "flavor of the month", or there was something more to it.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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Skuke,
I changed my position with a fitting for a new bike. You may just want to try a fitting on your current bike and see what they come up with. I have seen many riders with bad positioning simply because that is how they started out and never changed it.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Skuke,
If anything I'd think the higher hand position is easier on the hands and wrist. Your weight is shifted away from them.
My new Velonews came today. In an article on 10 speed drivetrains they stated: "Shimano's new shifters were designed to produce a narrower hood, compared to the old 9-speed units, with a reduction of the angle between handlebar and lever and a longer lever blade for better accessiblity when installed in a higher position on the bar." From that I'd guess it is not the "Flavor of the month." I think Lance has had some higher for quite some time.
You could also use this as a reason to buy a new group.
Take care.
Lon
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 322
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A fitting would be a good idea since I've never had one. But my problem is that I'm cheap ...err, financially responsible. Anyhow, I like my positioning and have no complaints with it. I am willing to try though and will rotate my bars this weekend.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 322
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Quote:
Lon wrote:
If anything I'd think the higher hand position is easier on the hands and wrist. Your weight is shifted away from them.
Conventional wisdom would agree. I realize there are way too many differences, but hand problems on my mountain bike was the reason I lowered my mt bike bars to be similar to my road bike. With a data point of one, I don't have much to go on. But with my mt. bike set up in a "conventional" manner, my hands would be numb in under 30 minutes. Lowering the handlebar and increasing the stem length lets me ride for a coupla hours. I ridden my Tetra for over 12 hours with no hand numbness. ...The rest of me was beat to crap, but the hands were fine :-p
For me, I know the wrist alignment is the critical issue. I have both brake hoods canted in about 10 degrees. If they point straight forward like most bikes, I get numb hands.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Skuke, well better numb hands than...
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