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Nev
captain
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Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Never where I want to be
Talk to me about pedals
#3355 - 06/10/04 12:50 PM (4.12.238.176)

I thought I'd stay cool and just add the same clipless I have on all my mountain bikes, so I'd only have one pair of shoes. Which I did.

But alas, the smooth repetitive forward turning of this road thing is much different than the constantly moving around all over the place mtb thing. It's noticeable. The float in these pedals, side to side movement, is wasted energy and movement not going where it should. There's also very little platform on the mtb pedals I use, little shoe/pedal contact.

I guess maybe another pair of shoes and a pair of road pedals are in order

So...in the pedal department, what's good, bad, to look for, get, not get, brands, etc.? I don't know squat on this road part.


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Allan
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Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 198
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Re: Talk to me about pedals new [Re: Nev]
#3356 - 06/10/04 01:05 PM (66.205.8.130)

Nev
As far as pedals go for road, there was a time when Shimano got it right way back in the late 80s with their 7401 model pedals, then they strayed away to those silly little pods that were hard to get your cleat into.
These also created hotspots on the sole and did little to transfer power efficiently when compared to the bigger look type system.
I always preferred and still do, a non floating look cleat, and a decent pair of pedals with a look type system. From a purely visual point of view its good sound engineering, if it wasn't all the manufacturers still making them would not have been sticking with such a tried and proven design for so long.

--------------------
Its time to ride.


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Nev
captain
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Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Never where I want to be
Re: Talk to me about pedals new [Re: Allan]
#3358 - 06/10/04 03:50 PM (66.151.252.254)

Quote:

Allan wrote:
Nev
...compared to the bigger look type system.
I always preferred and still do, a non floating look cleat, and a decent pair of pedals with a look type system. From a purely visual point of view its good sound engineering, if it wasn't all the manufacturers still making them would not have been sticking with such a tried and proven design for so long.




So are there road pedals that do have some degree of float? Unless I have some knee issues, would I want it?

Are the cleats specfic to each specfic model, or for instance, does Look have one cleat that fits all their pedals?

Seems like the serious choices are Look, Time, Camp and Shimano. There's Ritchey and Speedplay but they seem to have their own thing going, and then the others like the Performance stuff.

What am I getting/missing from a $100 to $200 to $300 pedal besides weight loss? Low end mtb Shimano spd pedals (515s) I couldn't stand, but their better (959) are sweet. But then I switched to egg beaters which I love.


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Allan
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Reged: 05/04/04
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Re: Talk to me about pedals new [Re: Nev]
#3363 - 06/10/04 09:10 PM (66.205.8.130)

Nev its basically the design of the cleat that allows for float in the Look system, the black coloured ones are fixed and the red coloured ones allow float.
I think its about 10 degrees either side with the red ones, but ive never used floating cleats so i cant recall exactly just what the amount of float angle is.
As far as i know, its the same situation with most, if not all of the Look type pedal systems, ie Look, Campy and Shimano, all using a very similiar design for their cleats, fixed or floating.
Time uses a totally different type of cleat system, but i've never examined it closely to see just what its all about.
For ease of engagement and mass start racing, you really cant beat the Look type cleat, as i have found it allows for the fastest clipping in when moving off from the starting line, but i'm sure some people have gotten good results with other style cleats.
Some people swear by Speedplay and all other types of small contact pedals, but as i'm not an advocate of such a small contact area to push on,these dont get my vote.
Basically you get more for your money with pedals, the better (more expensive)pedals get lighter parts overall and better axle material, as well as more durable bearings that are adjustable. The cheaper ones work well too, but their lifespan is limited and once they wear out its usually a throw away item, its always the case of getting what you pay for.

--------------------
Its time to ride.


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DGauthier
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Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 21
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Talk to me about pedals new [Re: Nev]
#3364 - 06/10/04 10:59 PM (65.162.12.103)

The choice of pedals is as much a personal preference as the choice of saddle. That being the case, there are many, many products on the market that all appeal to one kind of rider or another. Here is my take on how to make sense of it all:

There are three things to look for in a road pedal:

1. You should like the way it feels to clip in and out of the pedal.
2. The pedal should provide a large supportive platform.
3. The pedal should allow your foot to sit as close to the pedal axle as possible. (This is referred to as the "stack height", and a low stack height is considered more stable and biomechanically efficient.)

(There are other considerations as well. For instance, the pedals shouldn't cause any pain in your knees or ankles. Some riders find that pedals with lots of "float" eliminate joint pain, while other riders find float will cause joint pain. Since joint pain is something that you may only discover after a few thousand miles, there is always an element of trial and error associated with trying out new pedals that cannot be eliminated.)

As you are probably already aware, while clipping in and out of SPD's (ie: mountain pedals) is fairly straightforward, they provide a very small platform, and the stack height is very large. Some road riders use SPD's because the recessed cleats are more "walkable". However, unless you do a lot of hiking during your rides, most of the modern road cleats are sufficiently walkable that this is not a concern. Many roadies find the improvement in "feel" associated with road pedals far outweigh the slight reduction in walkability.

Among the most popular pedals, there are really only 3 choices: Look (and "Look style"), Time, and Speedplay:

1. As mentioned in another post, the "Look style" pedals include those from Look, as well as Campy, Shimano, and others. I have not ridden any of these pedals, but on paper it sure looks like Shimano's new Look-style "Lance Pedal" is now the best of these. Shimano has taken the Look-style pedal and refined it to near perfection. Look-style pedals tend to offer a large platform. However, stack height is relatively large, because the cleat retention mechanism consists of a large hook at the back of the pedal that extends *above* the pedal platform. This hook limits how close the rider's foot can get to the pedal axle. Clipping in and out tends to be straightforward with most of the Look-style pedals.
2. Time has their own method of cleat retention. On Time pedals, the cleat retention hook has been moved *below* the pedal platform, and as a result Time pedals are known for having extremely low stack height. Also, Time pedals offer a large supportive platform. Some riders complain that clipping in and out isn't as easy with Time pedals compared to Look-style pedals, however. (Note these comments apply to the newer Time "Impact" pedals, and not older Time pedals.)
3. Speedplay has a completely different method of cleat retention, that allows smooth, unconstrained side-to-side "float" of the rider's foot on the pedal. Some riders love this and others hate it. The stack height is almost as low as Time's, but some riders complain that Speedplay pedals do not provide a large enough platform. Clipping in and out of Speedplay's is supposed to be extremely easy, and one of the things most Speedplay users love about them.

There are also very compelling offerings from smaller manufacturer's, such as Coombe, Bebop and Eggbeater. Each of these pedals has its own strengths and weaknesses, and is unique in design. However, if you go with any of these smaller vendors, ensure that you can easily obtain replacement cleats and parts as needed, since these brands aren't carried by every LBS.

Edited by DGauthier (06/10/04 11:12 PM)


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Lon
sage
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Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Speedplay new [Re: Allan]
#3365 - 06/10/04 11:03 PM (24.50.168.232)

I love my Speedplays. It is rare for anyone to switch back once they are used to them. Particularly if you are used to two sided pedals you will "have fun" clipping into Looks or Time pedals. Allan feels looks are quick. I've been 50 yards out on my Speedplays while a Look rider is still trying to find the pedal.

Speedplays are not a small contact area pedal. If they were Marty N could never have won the world track championship on them. Rather the pedal is the cleat and the cleat is the pedal. Unlike other designs the pedal is small and the cleat is large and substantial. I weigh 220 and I have no problems whatsoever. I rode Look compatible pedals and I would never switch back.

If you ride in places where you stop and clip in and out again the dual sided pedal has it all over the single sided ones. A good friend swore by Time for years and 2 weeks in Speedplays and he is sold.

The best news is the new model (the Zero) has adustable float. You pick the float you want from nothing to 15 percent. Pick whatever floats your boat.

Unless you are one of the small group of people with almost perfect biomechanical action of your legs, knees etc. you could very well end up with some very bad knees on no float. I know I can't ride them.

Look float varies from 0,3,6 and 9 degress. It depends on the pedal and cleat.

Good luck on your decision. There were a number of discussions on this topic on the old board. I'd do a search and read it. Most people that have been around for awhile don't respond any longer to topics hashed to death before on the old board.

Take care.


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Nev
captain
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Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Never where I want to be
Re: Talk to me about pedals new [Re: Nev]
#3373 - 06/11/04 04:54 PM (66.151.252.254)

Thorough and insightful -- all of it. Much appreciated. I checked the Speedplay site, the Zero's look interesting. I will check them.

What stinks is realizing I'll be in the shop for well over an hour testing them all out. And the only shop that has them all is other side of town. It will be done.

With many thanks and appreciations,
Nev


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Lon
sage
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Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: Talk to me about pedals new [Re: Nev]
#3375 - 06/11/04 05:27 PM (198.45.18.20)

You are very welcome. Thanks for the kind words. They are always appreciated especially on a Friday afternoon!

Maybe someday if I am a good little boy I'll be a Captain like my buddy Dave T. How about it Dave? Do you think I have a chance?


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
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Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Re: Talk to me about pedals new [Re: Lon]
#3379 - 06/11/04 09:09 PM (24.17.236.162)

Quote:

Lon wrote:
You are very welcome. Thanks for the kind words. They are always appreciated especially on a Friday afternoon!

Maybe someday if I am a good little boy I'll be a Captain like my buddy Dave T. How about it Dave? Do you think I have a chance?



Lon: If you work hard, keep your nose to the grindstone and shoulder to the wheel, no, wait that's something else. You, a Captain? Sure. You're doing a good job catching up with me.

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
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Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
To the topic.. new [Re: Dave_Thompson]
#3388 - 06/12/04 04:13 AM (24.17.236.162)

I heartily endorse the Speedplays. Both my Serottas and my Kirk have X-2s. My wife's Calfee has Frogs.

We've had Speedplays for years, with no problems. They are different and do take a little getting used to if you're coming from another brand of clipless pedal. But they work, they're simple, easy to service and easy to repair if necessary.

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.


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