OnYerLeft
new member
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 35
Loc: CA, USA
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did you guys notice that the bikes in stage 3 used shallow rimmed wheels? it must have somthing to do with the pave. why is this? are deep rimmed wheels too stiff for the cobblestones? are they less efficient on this terrain? or are they not durable enough to take this type of a beating? can someone shed light on this, pls?
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HeadAngle
new member
Reged: 06/30/04
Posts: 14
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Ya, I'd imagine stiffness is a major issue with those. I've ridden some deep section wheels and they're pretty harsh most of the time, as compared to standard hoops. Bruyneel was interviewed, asking if they were doing different stuff. He said they were using different wheels than they used to, and wider tires, but not a full say Paris-Roubaix setup - something between that and standard road race setup since there were only two sections of cobbles.
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OnYerLeft
new member
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 35
Loc: CA, USA
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that's what i thought. i guess there are no real issues about durablity re. deep section wheels esp. carbon. thx for the quick response.
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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Exactly, deep section rims ride very harshly. After a couple of hours on deep rims, on all but the smoothest roads, everything hurts, your neck, back, arms. Same ride, same effort, on box rims and you're still fresh. No joke.
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OnYerLeft
new member
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 35
Loc: CA, USA
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to be honest i was thinking of getting deep section wheels coz it looks hot. but on a perfomance and practicality standpoint i think that shallow rimmed wheels are better for my type of riding. i don't race, just a weekend warrior. try to do more climbs. i want an all rounder light and durable clincher wheels that i can ride comfortably on centuries. however, i can't help but imagine my calfee on those fast-looking deep section wheels--yeah!
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DGauthier
new member
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 21
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
OnYerLeft wrote:
that's what i thought. i guess there are no real issues about durablity re. deep section wheels esp. carbon. thx for the quick response.
I wouldn't say that. Check out cycling news. T-Mobile and others were on 36 spoke, 3 cross, box section wheels. No messing around with 24 or 28 spoke builds. Definitely they were addressing comfort/compliance *and* durability.
Edited by DGauthier (07/08/04 09:55 PM)
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HeadAngle
new member
Reged: 06/30/04
Posts: 14
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The deep sections do look cool, no doubt there. But as we've said, they are more harsh. Even the only slightly deep section rims, stuff like Rolf Vectors, or various others that are say half as tall as a Mavic Cosmic, are stiffer (I have some Rolfs, and they most definitely ride harsher than my other wheels). ONe other thing to note though is spoke tension. Some of these deep sections, as well as some of the fancier shallower rims will use very high spoke tension, which adds some stiffness as well.
If you can, try to test ride some stuff. Go to a bunch of bike shops that sell a variety of high end bikes, and just test ride bikes to see how their various wheels feel. Yes, the frame will obviously have a big impact, but you can likely get an idea from the wheels as well, and a fair amount of the time, the wheels will make a bigger difference.
When I did a ton of test riding before I bought my Calfee, I got to ride a few different wheels. I had been all set to get some Campy Neutrons. But then I rode them and the Reynolds Cirra SV's. The Neutrons were absolute jackhammers, and they aren't even a deep section! The Reynolds are the dreamiest wheels I've ever ridden by far - I was so in love with them, that I just had to have them, even though they cost more than twice (almost 3x) what Neutrons cost. The Cirras are tubulars too, which helps a lot, and also the Neutrons are known for being one of the stiffest.
I also rode some Velomax wheels, Ksyriums, and some "regular" Mavic hand built wheels. Swapping the Neutrons off the Serotta Ottrott ST that I tried, and putting the Reynolds on COMPLETELY changed the feel of that bike - I went from really disliking it, to finding it ok (the Calfee plus Reynolds wheels though, oh man, that is just a buttery smooth combo!).
So, try stuff out, talk to folks. And, know, it's completely cool (IMHO) to factor the look of the wheels in. Maybe you can find some cool looking wheels that won't ride say as harsh as somethign like Cosmics.
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OnYerLeft
new member
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 35
Loc: CA, USA
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thx for the heads up. them cirras are surely both form and function--sweetness! i'm already sold with them. however, i'm still justifying the tetra to my girlfriend so spending a pretty penny for the cirras is out of the question (errr...for the meantime i hope).
further, i'm still hesistant to get tubulars coz it's harder to change tires when you get a flat...or so i think. isn't it bulkier to bring a spare tire than a spare tube? do patch kits work with tubulars? how long does it take for the glue to bond and dry? as you can see my i.q. for tubulars is pretty nonexistent.
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YeOldeBaldeOne
new member
Reged: 05/12/04
Posts: 2
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Quote:
DGauthier wrote:
Quote:
OnYerLeft wrote:
that's what i thought. i guess there are no real issues about durablity re. deep section wheels esp. carbon. thx for the quick response.
I wouldn't say that. Check out cycling news. T-Mobile and others were on 36 spoke, 3 cross, box section wheels. No messing around with 24 or 28 spoke builds. Definitely they were addressing comfort/compliance *and* durability.
Count the number of spokes in the front wheel of the T-Mobile bike attached to that comment about them using 36 spokes, it has 28 spokes.
Edited by YeOldeBaldeOne (07/09/04 07:29 PM)
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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That looks very much like a Fir Zenith Rim. It is an Italian Rim not as well known here.
I just had a wheelset rebuilt with them and Sapim Spokes. It is an outstanding all around wheel. If you look very carefully you will see that the nipple holes are not drilled in a straight line.
Here is the description from the importer.
They feel lighter than 470. My guess is with the double eyelet they can be built with high spoke tension. These are 120 kilograms of force. They then are very efficient.
The cool thing with the X Camber rim holes is that the spokes do not have to be bent. They each go straight to the hub.
My guess is they pulled the stickers off the rim since they are not a sponsor. They probably did not want to get the sponsor mad.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Here is the Importer's Description of the Zenith Rim. I don't know where it went in my first post. It was there and I changed the color of the font to red so it would stand out. By its absence it stands out.
Zenith Clincher
The best all around high performance rim on the market for clincher tires. The Zenith features X Camber system for non-aligned rim holes for improved camber, Grid Security Concept for better braking and Wear Control for indication of wear in the braking surface. Zenith is available in silver, black, red and blue. Also available in 28, 32 and 36 hole drilling
Rim for clincher tires, double eyelet
Available 28, 32, 36 hole
Available silver, black, red, blue
470 grams
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DGauthier
new member
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 21
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Hey, you're right! Most of the bikes shown don't have 36 spokes, in fact: Matthais Kessler's bike has 32's front and rear, as does Koos Moerenhout's bike. The only 36's depicted are on the Gerolsteiner Wilier. Perhaps it varies with rider weight?
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HeadAngle
new member
Reged: 06/30/04
Posts: 14
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Kind of a random comment, but I've used Fir rims in the past and absolutely loved them. This was for mtb, and as Lon said, Fir's are not well known (and relatively hard to find) in the US. At the time, they were the same weight as the equivalent Mavic, but held up way better. From what I read (I think mostly on cyclingnews.com and a few others), a few teams were using Fir rim wheels for those stages.
Also of note in terms of people wanting deep section wheels. They are heavier usually. They definitely go fast on the flats and so on (even mildly deep section wheels are noticeably faster, even to a more recreational rider such as myself - I was very surprised).
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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The first wheelset I had cut and rebuilt I picked the Fir SRG 30. It has a 30 mm cross section. To be honest I like the more aero look and picked it for that.
I had to push myself to go with the box look of the Zenith for the other wheelset. However now that I have both if I had to choose one it would be the Zenith. It works better as an all around rim.
I probably would not have gone with it but I have that kind of confidence in the person I'm working with. I've yet to find him wrong about anything and I can be fussy.
So in reply to the start of the thread...I'd pick a box rim for the all around wheelset.
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garygromet
friend
Reged: 01/28/04
Posts: 36
Loc: Miami, FL, USA
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I preface this post with the fact that I use Continental Competition tubulars on our DF tandem. We are a light weight ( <300lb ) endurance riding team. The rear tubular on the Zipp 404 was changed at 1016 miles due to wear. The front is still good.
Since acquiring the tandem, my wife and I rode 5000+ miles on Ksyriums, 200 on 32 spoke Mavic/DA and 1000 on Zipp 404s (24 spokes front & rear).
Zipps are just as stiff as the Ksyrium, but more comfortable.
On the 35 mile trip to Flamingo from the entrance to the Everglades National Park, the pavement is not smooth and it feels like you are riding in mud. The top coat of asphalt has been washed out leaving a partial surface of rocks and pebbles on top of the old layer of asphalt. The Zipps were faster and far more comfortable than the Ksyriums.
FYI: The Zipp brake pads are a necessity on the tandem.
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