gbel
new member
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 9
Loc: California
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I have monitored this forum for the two years I have owned my Tetra Pro but seldom participate. I need to know if others are having the same problem with Ksyrium SL wheels. In the past 7 months I have had three rear spokes, all on the drive side, break inside the nipple. Once while descending, once while riding tempo on flat to rolling terrain and today while climbing. I was standing, with more weight on my front wheel, when POP, the now familiar sound of a spoke breaking alerted me to the fact that I would have to limp back the remaining 30 miles of my ride. I am tired of being out 40 to 50 miles and having my training interrupted by this nuisance. The amazing fact is that the spoke breaks inside the nipple and remains there. All three have broken in the same way. The one year warranty from Mavic has expired. Do I simply replace all of the spokes or go to a new wheel set (not Mavic)? 
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BikeWNC
new member
Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 23
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I've had my Ksyrium SSC SL wheels since May and have around 3000 miles on them. When I first got them the non-drive side spokes on the rear wheel detensioned and were making a lot of noise. The LBS I bought them from retentioned the wheels. They needed a slight tune-up a few weeks later but since that time, about the end of May, they have remained true. The only issue I have with them is there seems to be some friction in the bearings that can cause the pedals to turn when freewheeling. I have adjusted the bearings with no improvement. I have been riding in the rain though so I may need to take the hub apart and clean and re-lube. I'm sure my LBS can show me how to do that.
BTW, I am 180lbs and don't baby these wheels.
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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Hmmm...that's a toughy. Even though the warranty is out I think you need to contact the Mavic rep and see what your options are. I think 3 spokes you're out is a good rule of thumb. You need a new or rebuilt wheel IMO. Good luck and let us know what happens.
One more thought, did you buy them from a shop? I know for a fact my shop will stand by whatever they sell. In fact they may have more luck with the rep as they will have an ongoing relationship with Mavic and selling their products in the future...or not.
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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BTW, you didn't say how many miles you have on them. That might factor into it if it's a high mileage wheel.
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Allan
journeyman
Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Bds,W I
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I had two pairs of these wheels, and for a while all was well with them, until i had about 3000 miles on the more used training set. It was a loud click that let me know i had broken a spoke in the rear wheel without even looking down,but the huge waver that was confronted me, when i did look down made me stop immediately.
A spoke on the cassette side had sheared off by the head in the hub, and the 20 profile tyre was rubbing the frame extremely bad by the BB, good thing it wasnt a 23, cause the wheel would have locked up for sure.
All reputable wheel builders will tell you that anytime you use a radial spoke pattern in the rear wheel, you are compromising the wheels structural integrity, because you are now putting all the driven load onto the one laced side to give you the driving force needed.
If you look at the Ksyrium SSC rear wheel, you can easily see that ALL of this forward driven force is left to be transferred to the rim by only FIVE spokes on the laced side.
While i know its not as high tech looking, the Elite model Ksyrium rear wheel is actually a much more robustly built wheel, mainly because of the laced pattern on both sides, and since you only have twenty spokes, its best that the tension be spread evenly all over the total spoke count.
While this is not a comforting thought (myself included) to many that like these fat spoke wheels, i had to sell mine off and change to the Elite versions. 
--------------------
Its time to ride.
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gbel
new member
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 9
Loc: California
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I bought the wheels from my lbs at the same time I purchased the frame from Calfee. Except for three months, during which Calfee was repairing a cable guide on my frame, I put around 7500 miles on the wheels over the last two years. I had been considering a second set with a different cassette configuration but now I am thinking of getting a replacement set from a different builder. The lbs said they have never seen spokes break inside the nipple before. Sometimes the nipple cracks or the spoke breaks at the hub. These wheels go out of round immediately and drastically. The wobble reaches the stays and when you look down it completely un-nerves you. My plan is to mark the replacement spoke. If the same spoke breaks again, I know the problem is either in the nipple or the wheel structure.
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skagwayroadie
contributor
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 141
Loc: Alaska
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This is one the bad points to using high performance wheels on training rides. There is that all too familiar fine-line between durability and lightness.
The single biggest complaint I have heard regarding the Ksyriums, since they came out, has been the spoke durability. Have you been replacing just the broken spokes or have all of the spokes been replaced? What about the nipples? Are the spokes and nipples being replaced as a set? Are the being installed using some type of spoke prep? The breakage implies a binding situation in the nipple to me...like if the wheel is loosing tension in the one spoke, then binds, and suddenly...snap. It seems to me that once a spoke or two have broken, the other spokes become over-stressed, due the wheel being way out of balance, to a point that makes them very prone to failure. Perhaps...it could well be that the alloy used in the spokes are not sufficient for long term longevity with the kind of riding you do. As the spoke count drops, each spoke plays a greater role in keeping the wheel strong and true.
IF, I were in your shoes, I would get rid of the Ksyriums and find another wheelset...a set customs to train on and some Zipps or something similar to race on. What ever you do , please keep us filled in.
Best of luck to you,
...Mark
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rickrides
new member
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 8
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
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I have over 7000 miles on mine and haven't had any problems. I weigh 160 lbs and climb a lot. I can't complain about these wheels but I probably will replace them with something else when the time comes.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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My shop sold well in excess of 70,000 dollars in them last year. They have not had a spoke problem. Any problems have been a problem with the wheel itself. Don't forget these fancy, expensive wheels are also FACTORY wheels.
He also said that there is a very specific kit that must be used to fix them and a very specific procedure to follow. Without both right on the money your troubles will continue.
In Pittsburgh before this shop opened I had to drive 6 hours to the Philadelphia area to get this level of service. For example my Shimano 7700 Wheels required a 3 hours Shimano Training Session to truly know how to fix them. Nobody in Pittsburgh had it. All they did was try and that did not work.
The wild wobble when they do break is because there are so few spokes. When a 32 breaks a spoke then you still have 31 spokes closely spaced to help keep it straigh.
I'd call Mavic myself and get their customer service. If that doesn't work see if they can tell you who has all the specific materials and knowledge to really fix them correctly.
Evidently the vast majority of them are fine and relatively bombproof. However like any factory product you can get the one made at 4:45 on Friday.
Good luck.
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gbel
new member
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 9
Loc: California
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I called Mavic on Monday. They haven't seen the type of breakage occurring on my wheel but feel the problem could be caused by over-tensioned drive spokes. The tension should be within the 130-160kg range. My lbs has since informed me that they don't possess the required tool for measuring the tension on this wheelset. The nearest shop with the correct tools and experience is 4 hours away. They replaced the spoke and have marked it so as to identify the location should a future breakage occur. Mavic also suggested purchasing a set of Elites for training use. They also informed me of their ability to rebuild their wheelsets for a price near cost.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
Mavic also suggested purchasing a set of Elites for training use. They also informed me of their ability to rebuild their wheelsets for a price near cost.
Wow wasn't that generous of them!  That is very interesting how they responded. You don't need Mavic just somebody with the tools and expertise to work on them. 4 hours isn't that far when you consider the investment you have in them.
It also is interesting that Mavic's solution is to sell you another set of wheels. Does this mean that we shouldn't buy their SL if we don't race? Are they saying this is just a race day wheel? I know a lot of people who ride them day in and day out without the problems you have had. They were just getting away from being responsible.
Lastly it reminds me of Mavic's reaction a long time. I got an Open Pro Rim. There was something wrong with it. Nobody knew what but it would not stay true for more than about 50 miles and it wasn't the build. (We rebuilt it twice!) Finally somebody who really ruled got me a new one out of them. It turned me off to Mavic to say the least.
Take care.
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flythebike
captain
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 272
Loc: N. Virginia, USA
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You can get a Park tensiometer for $50 on eBay or whereever. I can't believe a bike shop doesn't have one. Or is there a special one required for those bladed spokes on Ksyriums?
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cole
new member
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 5
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During the season Mavic receives 40-60 pairs of Ksyriums a week (per my friend who has a account with Mavic and has been a Master Wheelbuilder for 30+ years) for various problems. Most of these wheels will need repairs AT MAVIC sometime in their life. If you have a high mileage set (and there are a few out there Im sure) and havent had any issues, consider yourself lucky.
I like cool looking stuff like most folks - and these are very cool looking wheels - but I would never use them. Please save yourself the headache and buy a regular set of wheels. A much more durable set of custom wheels can be built that are just as light or lighter than the K's.
I am not a Mavic hater. I do have the top piece to an 80's Mavic headset on my desk as a paper weight you know....
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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Cole, your post just doesn't ring true to everyday experiences. I've never heard of anyone having their wheels shipped back to Mavic for repair. I know my shop has repaired 2 of them....one person ran over a 1/4 inch screw which pierced his rim, the other was attacked by a wild animal which got wedged between the front wheel and the spokes (wheel did not fail either).
There are a lot of races around here and of all the wheels that come through the shop this has been one of the most trouble-free, by far.
also, Ksyriums need NEVER be sent to Mavic for repair. Any shop can do the work. Parts are readily available. I wonder why your friend needs to send them to Mavic if he's a master wheelbuilder?
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cole
new member
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 5
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Hi vaxn8r,
You wrote: "I wonder why your friend needs to send them to Mavic if he's a master wheelbuilder?"
He doesnt! He does not work at a shop, repair them, or touch them in any way, so it would be impossible for him to send one anywhere. He has just told me what the guys at Mavic tell him. Thats it!
Several of my team mates race and ride on them too. So far so good.
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