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superunleaded
captain


Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 223
Ultegra 10sp is out
#4639 - 11/18/04 10:53 PM (63.119.204.129)

I just received my Excel catalod and saw the Ultegra 10sp in it.
Has anyone tried this 10sp yet?
Comments please.
-gas

--------------------
***Regular Unleaded - 4.99
***Special Unleaded - 7.99
***Superunleaded - Arm & a Leg


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
*****

Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Re: Ultegra 10sp is out new [Re: superunleaded]
#4647 - 11/19/04 06:02 PM (24.17.236.162)

I'm having a hard time with the almost double the cost difference between the 9-speed and 10-speed groups. Benefits...?

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.


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Allan
journeyman
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Reged: 05/04/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Bds,W I
Re: Ultegra 10sp is out new [Re: Dave_Thompson]
#4648 - 11/19/04 09:05 PM (66.205.8.2)

Dave to be honest the 9 speed is really enough for most people, so to suddenly switch it out for the significant price difference of the 10 speed would be for those with a bit of extra cash to spare.
If however you do decide to upgrade, its best to consider finding a buyer for your present 9 speed equipment before you change to 10 speed, as this would definately help offset the total cost of your new 10 speed purchase.
The only real long term problem i can see with keeping the 9 speed system is the final obsolete factor where in a few years from now, the high end models will no longer be made in 9, thereby forcing you to the eventual purchase of a full gruppo 10 upgrade anyhow.
The lower priced Ultegra 10 will definately take away sales from the Dura Ace 10, and to counter this shimano may close the cost difference between the two groups to keep them more competitively priced.It would be wise to wait till after Christmas and see which retailer is willing to offer the best new year specials.

--------------------
Its time to ride.


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
*****

Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Ultegra 10sp is *really* out! new [Re: Allan]
#4649 - 11/19/04 09:34 PM (24.17.236.162)

Price is not the only consideration when I buy something, but cost/benefit is. Currently I'm running Dura Ace triple on all my bikes. I can see no tangible benefit to change out to a 10-speed anything. Makes no sense to me. Now that said, buying a bike that is already equipped with a 10-speed drivetrain might be attractive, but I can't see what a 10-speed does for me. 10-speed chains and cassettes are 50% or more costly than the equivalent 9-speed stuff, yet won't last as long.

I'm not a retro-grouch by any stretch. To the contrary, I'm often the eagerly sought-after early adapter. However not this go-around.

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.


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Lon
sage
*****

Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: Ultegra 10sp is *really* out! new [Re: Dave_Thompson]
#4660 - 11/22/04 04:47 PM (68.233.219.25)

You get to hear one more "click."

I run D/A Triples on two bikes. On a third I switched it to a compact crank, D/A front derailleur and shifters, XTR rear derailleur and a 11X32 cassette. That gives me a high end about the same and a climbing ratio about the same. I like that too. With the Allegheny Mountains, Pittsburgh Hills,age,weight, motivation/declining testosterone, a bad knee, and such I need those kind of ratios on each end.

Price changing down is unlikely. Shimano is working very hard at keeping the supply low and in keeping resellers in line with MSRP. Our days of great sales could unfortunately be over. Europe is buying Shimano in large numbers, road biking is coming back here and supply is low. Oh well.

Here is a listing of some of our hills.

Pittsburgh Hills
Being located in the foothills of the Alleghenies, Pittsburgh has more hills than most metropolitan areas. That combined with road conditions that include no shoulders in many areas, cobblestone and brick roads, as well as potholes and road debris makes the area quite a challenge.
These are the 10 steepest grades in the city. The percentage expresses the steepness of the hill as the rise over run expressed as a percentage. A 0% grade is perfectly flat and a 100% grade is 45 degrees from the horizontal. The angle is the arctan of this number (37% = 20 degrees)

In general, Beechview has the steepest streets in the city. If you look at a topo map you'll see why. They force-fit a manhattan grid on Western PA terrain!


From Pgh Post-Gazette, Oct 5, 1984:

1. Canton Beechview 37%
2. Flowers Hazelwood 28%
3. East Woodford Carrick 27.6%
4. Cutler Northside 26%
5. Rialto (Pig Hill) Troy Hill 24%
6. Tesla Hazelwood 24%
7. Newitt Carrick 23%
8. N. Winebiddle Garfield 23%
9. Hampshire Beechview 23%
10. Potomac Banksville 22%

Outside of the city:

1 Logan Millvale 25%
2. Winsdor Forest Hills 25%
3. Decatur Forest Hills 24%
4. Seavy-High Etna 22%
5. Marion Forest Hills 19%

This next list is from the Pittsburgh Press on Jan 11, 1987 and was compiled by the Surveys Division and the Snow and Ice Control Program, Dept of Public Works. It is a sampling of streets and not the definitive list of steepest streets. The list has been re-arranged to be in order of steepness. It was originally in alphabetical order.
Canton Avenue Beechview 37%
Dornbush Street Homewood 31.98%
Boustead Street Beechview 29%
East Woodford Avenue Carrick 27.6%
Rialto Street Troy Hill 24%
Hampshire Avenue Beechview 23%
Capital Avenue Brookline 22.35%
Flatbush Avenue Brookline 21.33%
Fallowfield Avenue Beechview 22%
Potomac Avenue Banksville 22%
Belasco Avenue Beechview 21%
Walbridge Street Elliot 20%
Dagmar Avenue Beechview 20%
Greenleaf Street Mt. Washington 19.6%
Schimmer Street North Side 19.6%
Tokay Street Homewood 19.25%
Coast Avenue Beechview 17.65%
Cuthbert Street Mt. Washington 16%
South Negley Avenue Squirrel Hill 15.81% (about 9 degrees!)
Glenbury Street East Brookline 14.96%
Shaler Street West End 14.5%
Brosville Street Allentown 14.35%
Federal Street North Side 13.70%
Buena Vista North Side 12.5%
Quarry Street Southside 12.5%
Antrim Street North Side 12.35%
Eleanor Street South Side 12.2%
Baytree Street North Side 11.12%
Yoder Street Greenfield 9.52%

With all that, steepness is but one way to rate the hill. If you combine steepness with cobblestones or slick brick or bad repairs this can make a given hill more difficult than one that is steeper.
Most people overestimate steepness. The best way to measure a hill other than a topo map or surveying it is to use an inclinometer. Or some bicycle computers measure changes in elevation. The angle is then the arcsin of (change_in_elevation / distance).

In rating a hill there is also length to consider. For example, Cutler on the North Side is very steep and cobblestoned but is only a couple of hundred feet long. For a given power output, length as well as steepness must be considered. Thus a a short steep hill compared to a longer hill of the same elevation change might be less work.


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
*****

Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Re: Ultegra 10sp is *really* out! new [Re: Lon]
#4661 - 11/22/04 05:10 PM (24.17.236.162)

Quote:

Lon wrote:
You get to hear one more "click."

.......With the Allegheny Mountains, Pittsburgh Hills,age,weight, motivation/declining testosterone, a bad knee, and such I need those kind of ratios on each end.



Lon: Except for the bad knee part, you and I are a lot alike. Here in north eastern Washington, we are at the base of several mountain ranges and withing a few hour drive of four or five more, including the Rockies.

I love riding the hills, and spinning is my salvation when they are in front of me, so I like and use all my gears. That said, my need for 'one more click' at a 30~50% premium is non-existent.

The compact crank MTB rear der/cassette combo works pretty nifty too. I've run it on an earlier Serotta I had, and may do it again on another that I'm negotiating to buy now.

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.


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Lon
sage
*****

Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Captain Dave new [Re: Dave_Thompson]
#4662 - 11/23/04 03:39 PM (12.76.123.127)

Don't forget we are both "Captains" as well.

My decision now is:

I now have a Luna and a DFly. I got a great deal on the Fly and could not pass it up. Both have D/A triples. (My older Kestrel has the compact.)

It is remarkable how similar the two Calfees feel. The Luna is truly one of the real "bargain" frames. So I'm out to differentiate them and also lighten the Fly without making it "fragile." The first step since Pittsburgh finally has a great LBS is getting a set of tubulars built. They are Ambrosio F 20 Crono rims (340 grams but strong) Sampim spokes mostly Lasers but on the drive side they will be Race and my King Hubs. They should build up in the 1400 gram range or a little less yet be strong. I going to run Tufo's with the sealant so I should be safe from flats for the most part. The shop hasn't had a Tufo fail yet on the road. (As long as I'm within 50 miles of home or so my wife will get me if I'm stuck.)

My next decision is if I make one of the Calfee's a compact double if and when I get the money. I have the derailleurs new and in a box. I'd need a left shifter and the crank. FSA is coming out with some really nice outboard bearing cranks for next year.

That combination should drop the Fly weight 1 1/2 to 2 pounds yet still be strong and able to climb. What would you do?

I love the D/A triple. Most people don't realize it is not the "true" triple that requires you to really use all 3 a lot of the time but rather a 39 X 53 with a great climbing set-up. That is my quandry. I'd still have the D/A Triple on the Luna and in backup if I don't sell it. (I may have to.)

What do you think?


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
*****

Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
What I like........ new [Re: Lon]
#4664 - 11/23/04 05:00 PM (24.17.236.162)

I just *really* like the feel of the Dura Ace triple shifters, so smooth and positive. I run a 12/27 cassette so I have pretty much everything I need for the climbs that I face.

Several months ago I scored a great deal on a set of American Classic 420 clinchers (I don't want the hassle of tubies) that really made a difference in the way my Serotta felt. I weighed the wheels on my digital scale, and they came in at 1385 grams for both! So I'm using them as everyday wheels. They are a tad harsher than the D/A Open Pros they replaced, but the Ottrott has such a sweet ride, the difference is minor.

As you are finding out, being a 'weight weenie' has a pretty high price. If it were me, I'd use the D/A triple stuff you have. But since it's not me, my profound advice to you is save up for the compact double and attendant components you'll need to run it and count grams. It's fun. Keep the Luna with a triple. Sell the Kestrel. Take two aspirin and call me in the morning!

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
*****

Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
And to make matter worse... new [Re: Dave_Thompson]
#4666 - 11/24/04 04:25 AM (24.17.236.162)

I just bought two framesets and I'm having a devil of a time trying to figure how to set them up. On one of them I'm even considering (gasp!) Campy! We'll see, stay tuned.

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.


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Lon
sage
*****

Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Calling Captain Dave...Interested in Some Parts? new [Re: Dave_Thompson]
#4676 - 11/27/04 04:21 PM (12.76.108.88)

Since you have two frames without parts and I might switch my one bike's parts would you be interested in D/A Triple components that are less than a year old, low miles, (I had 5 bikes most of the time) at a reasonable price? I'd only be selling the rear derailleur, front derailleur, left shifter, and crank. The right shifter is the same as a double so it doesn't matter.

I'm still not sure especially since the parts are almost brand new.

I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.

Lon


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
*****

Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Capt. Lon: Yup. new [Re: Lon]
#4677 - 11/27/04 05:06 PM (24.17.236.162)

Lon: Had a GREAT Thanksgiving! The weather was perfect, mid 50's and bright and sunny, so went for a nice long ride to build up the appetite. Then went to close friends house for a wonderful dinner. In the middle of dinner our son calls, from Iraq. We hadn't heard from him in almost a month, so dinner was put on hold as we passed the phone around getting up to date with him. He's back at his base, done with one battle and getting geared up for another. Lots of tears around when he had to hang up, but dinner tasted particularly good that day.

I would be interested in your parts. You can e-mail me with details. davetspokane1@comcast.net

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.

Edited by Dave_Thompson (11/27/04 05:23 PM)


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Lon
sage
*****

Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: Capt. Lon: Yup. new [Re: Dave_Thompson]
#4681 - 11/28/04 04:38 PM (12.76.120.201)

I'm happy to hear that your Thanksgiving went so well and especially that your son is doing well. I'll say a prayer for him.

It is very wet here at the moment and we are not sure what sun is. Did I ever tell you that we get fewer sunny days in Pittsburgh than Seattle? I did get some riding in however.

I'll be in touch. Take care.


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
*****

Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Re: Capt. Lon: Yup. new [Re: Lon]
#4682 - 11/28/04 05:18 PM (24.17.236.162)

Lon: I'm not in Seattle, I'm in the far eastern edge of our fair state. Spokane is hard on the Washington/Idaho border. Much different than Western Washington where Seattle is. We're considered high desert, much dryer and less humid with lots more sunshine than our western counterparts. Much prettier, far less crowded and much much better biking!

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.


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scoutdog
new member


Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 2
Re: Ultegra 10sp is out new [Re: superunleaded]
#4727 - 12/07/04 11:41 PM (68.100.211.193)

Hi, I'm fairly new to cycling, but I did want to chime in to say that I just got my '05 Cannondale R1000 with the new Ultegra 10 speed. I don't have cold weather gear yet so it's sitting on a trainer for now. I ordered my bike a few months ago so I was on Cannondale's "hot list", meaning that my frame got hooked up with Ultegra before the normal production run, from what I understand. I have little experience from which to base any comparisons, but just the final fitting process whet my appetite and sent me into a frenzie to get cold weather gear. I'm sure a forum regular will report back with a detailed review soon.

Regards,
Scott


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
*****

Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Re: Ultegra 10sp is out new [Re: scoutdog]
#4728 - 12/07/04 11:54 PM (24.17.236.162)

Welcome Scoutdog!

If you've read this thread, I hope you don't think I have something against the Ultegra 10-speed, I don't. I just couldn't justify the extra expense IF I were to upgrade from the 9-speed set-up I have now.

Someday I'll have 10-speed I'm sure, but it will because I have a new bike and nothing but 10-speed components to put on.

Make sure you give us a ride report on the Cannondale section of this forum as soon as you are able! Take some good pics and post them in the photo gallery too.

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.


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scoutdog
new member


Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 2
Re: Ultegra 10sp is out new [Re: Dave_Thompson]
#4729 - 12/08/04 12:59 AM (68.100.211.193)

Thanks, Dave. I can certainly understand not being able to justify the expense of upgrading a bike to the 10 speed. There are already enough avenues in cycling to syphon off cash -case in point: cold weather gear...

I'll post pics as soon as I'm able. It sure is pretty.

Regards,
Scott


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superunleaded
captain


Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 223
Re: Ultegra 10sp is out new [Re: Dave_Thompson]
#4746 - 12/09/04 12:38 AM (63.119.204.129)

Thanks for all the replies guys.
I'm with you on this one Dave.
The thing is, you get to the point where you gotta have "it".
Kinda like the Peg you are waiting for.
gotta have it. Right

--------------------
***Regular Unleaded - 4.99
***Special Unleaded - 7.99
***Superunleaded - Arm & a Leg


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
*****

Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Re: Ultegra 10sp is out new [Re: superunleaded]
#4747 - 12/09/04 01:18 AM (24.17.236.162)

"It", the Pegoretti, arrived yesterday. Damn, I'm havin' fun!

Lessee now, winter is over when................?

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.


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superunleaded
captain


Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 223
Re: Ultegra 10sp is out new [Re: Dave_Thompson]
#4752 - 12/09/04 05:43 PM (63.107.139.3)

Do you feel like a little kid all over again
I bet you, a lot of little kids around here are just waiting for you to show us your new toy and drool all over it.

Aaaand for the winter? If you can't wait, dress up like mike(mets?) from NY when he first rode his calfee in the snow and go for it

I'm thinking of Ind Fab for my next toy.

--------------------
***Regular Unleaded - 4.99
***Special Unleaded - 7.99
***Superunleaded - Arm & a Leg


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Dave_Thompson
prophet
*****

Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
Re: Ultegra 10sp is out new [Re: superunleaded]
#4753 - 12/09/04 06:54 PM (24.17.236.162)

Quote:

superunleaded wrote:
..Do you feel like a little kid all over again ..




Oh yeah!!

Quote:

superunleaded wrote ..I'm thinking of Ind Fab for my next toy..




I'll show you mine, if You'll show me yours!

--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.


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gcthree
new member


Reged: 12/27/04
Posts: 1
Loc: Long Island
Re: Ultegra 10sp is out new [Re: Dave_Thompson]
#4831 - 12/27/04 10:50 PM (208.195.236.21)

Hi team- I'm a new kid on the block. Neat forum!
I was building-up a Fuji Pro Series Team SL frame with the 9 speed Ultegra stuff that had adorned the Cannondale that the Fuji was replacing. I went with a compact crank (FSA Gossamer) thinking this would be my climbing bike (it's a 61cm frame and weighs just under 17 lbs. all up). I had nothing but trouble getting the 9 speed to work with the compact crank (could only select 5 gears with chain rub on either front der or neighboring chainring). I have the D/A 10 speed on my Trek Madone, and cannot say enough great things about how well that drivetrain works. So, I decided to convert over to 10 speed D/A, thinking that the narrower chain will help expand the cog selection. After a number of tweeks to get the American Classic CR 420's to work with the 11/21 cassette, it's all together and working wonderfully. The compact and 11/21 are a great combination. Nothing shifts like the new D/A. I'm sure the new Ultegra will shift much the same, and for that upgrade alone, the new 10 speed stuff is worth it.


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Insightdriver
captain
***

Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
Re: Ultegra 10sp is out new [Re: superunleaded]
#5725 - 04/19/05 08:05 PM (192.55.52.2)

I've got a couple of hundred miles on my Ultegra 10-speed now and I'm happy with it. I have the 12-17 cassette and an FSA crank with 50/36 chainrings. My low is 35 now and my high is 109.5. For the medium-distance riding I do it's fine. I have nearly the full range of a triple with no duplicate gears and some very close ratios as long as I am willing to shift between the chainrings and cassette to get the next-nearest ratio that I might prefer to maintain cadence.

The shifting is crisp and positive. I'm able to accelerate quickly while shifting with each upshift going "CLUNK," without delay onto the next cog without any reduction of pedal pressure. I have no chain rub in any gear due to the nice front dereailleur shifting. My LBS guy also put an inline barrel shifter on my front shifter cable for fine tweaking convenience.

I agree that it would make no sense to upgrade from the 9-speed but in the case of spec'ing a new bike I'd go for the ten-speed on the get-go.


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