vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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Ok, I had always heard there was a difference in the dropouts between the TP/Luna and the D-Fly but had never seen a Fly in person. The website does not show what the differences are. Anyway, I saw a D-Fly this week. Let me just say I am unimpressed with the rear dropouts. What is with the rough machining in the inner surfaces? There is no way to smooth that out? It looks like I might have done it in my garage with a drill bit.
Honestly, I think it takes a lot away from the appearances of the bike. I also think Calfee should be showing that dropout on the website. I'd be ticked if I spent $3,500 and it looked like that....at least if I didn't know what I was getting ahead of time.
Other thoughts?
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cinelli
contributor
Reged: 01/17/04
Posts: 109
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One possible explanation is the rougher surface gives a better contact area against the rear hub. If you look at the detail of the dropout on the Dragonfly (see Dragonfly image on Calfee website), there is minimal surface area for the axle nuts to "bite into" the dropout. The rougher surface may provide a better grip than a smoother surface.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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I own a Fly. The dropouts are fine for me. A Fly is designed as function first. Just like a Calfee's lower bottle bosses on the seat tube have a reason I'm sure this design has a reason as well. In a like manner the bottom bracket and head tube do not use ti like a Tetra. The aluminum is lighter and Craig knows now that his isolation technique from the carbon works great. He used aluminum because he could make it lighter. A Fly's "function" is light and stiff.
The only thing I really noticed is the serial number is now on the outside of the dropout. This reinforces the hypotheis that there is a reason for the inside design.
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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Lon,
So how is the new DFly? How does it compare to the Luna? Make sure you use the same wheels for a valid comparison.
I agree with the DFly being designed for weight first. I was riding behind a Seven Alta and another Ti bike this weekend, and they had curved seat and chain stays. The other DFly I rode behind was straight. Curved stays add weight. I guess the Ti guys do that to make it a bit softer in the rear. Something you don't need to do on a full carbon bike.
The DFly is a very functional bike, not a beauty pagent winner. I was surprised to see Craig changed the lug work on the recent models in a nod to looks over function.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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It is surprising how much alike the two bikes are. Craig has said often he builds them to "feel" alike and he does. I'm enjoying the Fly very much. My Luna has been "down" for a little while. I changed the fork and the crown race had to be replaced...none in Pittsburgh...came in...mechanic home for the holidays...etc. Because of that I haven't compared them as closely as later.
If I remember correctly you know about Tufo Tubulars. Which models have you heard as the best of various "worlds." Believe it or not I'm having a tubular wheelset built.
I hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving.
P.S. With the cutout in the lug I would guess the new Fly lug is a little lighter. I'd guess he wanted to distinquish the "look" from a Luna. It is a long story but right now I don't have a Fly decal. It would be hard to tell the difference just looking.
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flythebike
captain
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 272
Loc: N. Virginia, USA
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If you'll allow me to barge in uninvited... I like the Tufo Elite Road tire very much. It is fairly tough, quite round, true, and very stiff. Decent wear too, especially on a front wheel. I like to run an Elite Road Rear and one of their 215 gram tires in the front, an S3 lite 215 for example, or a HICC (hi-mileage tire) 215.
Their tires are somewhat vulnerable to punctures, so watch out for glass, don't ride in the gutter, and use the sealant (it works on non-Tufo tires, too). If you're riding them unsupported, carry a spare and some of the sealant.
By the way, I've had some problems with their glue tape slipping on the rim fore-aft in the rain. Never rolled one, but the valve became cock-eyed, causing the tire to have a bump. I went back to gluing. Their 'extreme' glue tape would probably be ok in the rain.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Thank you very much for your advice. It is very consistent with other things I've heard. My shop tried the tape and dropped it. They found as you did that it did not always function as well as glue.
I had thought of the S3 Lite in the front and the Elite Road on the rear. I wasn't sure if it was a valid idea or not. It is interesting that you found it to be a good idea.
I keep waiting to hear if someone tried the S 33 Special and the above tires. That one seems like it could be more puncture proof. However the ride isn't supposed to be as nice.
Take care.
P.S. I found a place that gives you a 60 day road hazard warranty for $5. www.biketiresdirect.com Plus they had some good prices.
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Lon wrote:
P.S. I found a place that gives you a 60 day road hazard warranty for $5. www.biketiresdirect.com Plus they had some good prices.
Two thumbs up for biketiresdirect!
You can always find a better price somewhere, but they consistently have low prices across their stock range. Great service too! Before they moved to Oregon, I used to get my orders in ~8-12 hours! ...of course, they were just a few towns away back then.
--------------------
Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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flythebike
captain
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 272
Loc: N. Virginia, USA
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Another souce I've used is www.worldclasscycles.com in New York State. Old school kind of shop with an online biz. I might have used an S33, I'll check. If it is the one I'm thinking of, the vertical travel of the tire isn't so great, yielding a hard ride that feels more like a clincher. Kind of like a 19mm Continental sport tire or something.
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flythebike
captain
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 272
Loc: N. Virginia, USA
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I have an S3 pro as well and it is more of a TT tire or crit, very low profile, very stiff. Rather different than the S3 lite which is taller.
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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Lon,
On my Lew Palermos I use the Tufo S3 Lite 195 gram tires. The are actually 195 grams or less. I pump them up to 150-160. Hard as rocks. I have seen that some Tufos have a higher rolling resistance than some other tires, but increasing the pressure also decreases the rolling resistance. They work well, but are rather narrow for most rims, but work on the Palermo, as it is a narrow rim as well. Tough tread as well. No puncture problems. They pump up very round as well. Most tubulars turn inside out when you pump the up off the bike.
I have not tried the tape, but use glue instead. I also have not tried other Tufo tires, as I was going for light weight and a narrow tire to match the rim.
Bruce
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Thanks Bruce. Can you imagine...me going tubular...is gasp Campy next?
I had ordered in the road elite. I contacted Roger at World Class Cycles and he viewed it as their best all around tire. He also felt yours was the best for light weight so you sure picked right.
Have you ever picked up one of the 135 gram ones? It is unreal. If I had the money I"d buy one for a spare.
Do you use the sealant? How has it gone?
My LBS has found the tape to be inconsistent. I heard that elsewhere as well. Plus there is no way I'm doing a 50 mph downhill on any tire I attached! I'm not that fearless.
I might try yours next. They are in the same price range. Pittsburgh roads are so bad and getting worse I thought a little extra might could be good.
Thanks for answering as well as everyone who did.
Happy Holidays! 
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flythebike
captain
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 272
Loc: N. Virginia, USA
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The sealant works on small holes: <2mm. Don't go riding without a spare, though, you can't trust it that far
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