CurtFun
new member
Reged: 04/20/05
Posts: 1
Loc: Pleasanton, California
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I'd be interested to hear the comparisons from anyone who has ridden both the Tetra and the Orca. I'm juuuuuuust about ready to pull the trigger on a new high-end carbon bike and am doing lots of research before I commit. I have not test ridden either one yet. Have you any input concerning a tubed frame vs. monocoque design? Anything else I should consider?
Also, I'm a 6'1" male weighing about 225 pounds. Any input on what wheel set and tires to buy is also welcome. I'm looking at the Ksyrium SL and Elite, and the Rolf VigorRS and Echelon, but I'm sure some of those are too light for me. I'm open to other manufacturers, too. Can I get any wheel and tire advice from you?
Thanks in advance.
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Looneytuna
new member
Reged: 04/13/05
Posts: 21
Loc: Brooklyn, NY, USA
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Quote:
I'm looking at the Ksyrium SL and Elite
I am or was the same size as you.. I still have the Ksyrium SL's... They are Pretty responsive and were comfortable on long rides.. No problems for the first 6500 miles, but the rear rim did have cracks around the spoke.. had to replace the rim and and then the spokes due to metal fatigue.. front wheel has 7800 miles and no problems at all.. Will be specing out a new bike soon and not sure about the wheels.. I am down to 200 lbs now and may go all carbon wheels if I can..
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Every Day is a Good Day!!!
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flythebike
captain
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 272
Loc: N. Virginia, USA
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The word on the Ksyriums is that the 2nd batch which I believe was black, had some durability problems. But the ones that they are producing now seem to hold up better. That is from Bicycle Pro Shop, and they sell tons of them, so they should know. Basically people say they are bombproof. But, if you break a spoke a long way from home, I hope you have a cell phone and somebody can get you, becuase of the low spoke count, you are going to be rubbing on the frame. I went with a 32r28f DT R1.1/DT spokes/DT 240S hub setup because they are training wheels and I don't want the lightest thing - they idea is to make it harder so when the race wheels are on there, I go real fast - like with a donut on a baseball bat. But I understand some folks just want a pair of fast wheels and they don't race and fast wheels are certainly fun. My race wheels are Zipp 202s and 404s and I love them love them love them, wish I had a pair of 303s to boot. Those are tubulars BTW, not a fan of the clinchers. Also I've heard XLAB wheels are good.
Monocoque frames don't have lugs - and thus they are lighter. But if you break one, and can't patch the crack, then you have to replace the whole frame. With a lugged carbon frame like a Calfee, you can pull it apart and replace one of the tubes. A friend of mine has destroyed two Scott CR-1s this year. Once when the derailleur hanger sheared off, and then a second one when the top tube cracked right in the middle in a race pileup. They won't/can't give him another one until the 2006 model year, so he bought a Trek Madone to tide him over - I guess he can afford it. But if that had been a Calfee, Craig could have just fixed it (although I don't believe it would have broken in the first place but who knows) and he'd be back on it by now. That said, Orbea is well respected, and furthermore they are a cooperative which is very cool.
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1centaur
journeyman
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 126
Loc: Massachusetts
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I own a Tetra and an Orca. I also own a CT1, a Klein, a Six13, a Moots, and a Crumpton. In that list if I had to keep only one and dump only one, the Calfee might be the keeper and the Orca would almost certainly be the dumped. Tetra feels electric, alive, smooth, quality construction, and solid enough to take some abuse - builds to mid 17 lbs at a 58 size - about 1/2 pound more than the Orca. The Orca feels a little cheap and plasticy and I get frame flex out of the saddle at 155 lbs and not a lot of muscle. It feels lighter than it weighs, so I usually take it on days when I expect to do max climbing (the Six13 is lighter and the Crumpton would be lighter if I did not have a heavy - 1lb! metal flake - paint job). The choice of going with a built up bottom bracket for stiffness but a smaller top tube to keep the weight down is not a great choice I think - I believe that is the source of the flimsy feel.
When I actually just ride the Orca a few times in a row it seems fine, which is why I don't sell it, but when I saw this question there was no doubt in my mind about the right answer.
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"You never make a gift of Ventoux"
Eddie Merckx to Lance Armstrong
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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I have not ridden an Orbea, so no comments there, but I will say my Dragonfly is stiff and comfortable. I have also ridden a Tetra (very impressed with the ride, and why I got a Calfee in the end) and a Luna, also a great ride. You can't go wrong with Calfee, and if you need custom, it is pretty much the only game in town unless you go with Parlee, a very small builder in Mass.
If you are considering the Mavic SL, I would recommend spending just a few more dollars and getting the Topolino clincher. I have been riding them since last August, and they are still perfectly true. They are lighter than the Mavic, and have carbon spokes, that smooth the ride out even more. The Mavics are not bad wheels, but I like the Topolinos better. The Mavics tend to have a harsher ride.
I am 6'2" and 175 lb, so 50lb lighter than you, but I think the wheels can take your weight no problem.
Good luck with your choice.
Bruce
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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If you are going Shimano, do not overlook the 7800 wheelset. It is a fantastic all around wheelset. I can't say enough good things. I also own Rolf Elans which are lighter and very fast, but I think I like these as a second wheelset and not my all everyday wheels. I also own a set of Ksyrium SSC SL and while they are a very solid wheelset, fairly quick, I like the DA better. The DA feel faster if not a tad more comfy. FWIW, the Ksyrium and the DA are within 7g of each other, contradicting the Mavic claimed weight of being 100g lighter.
I own and have ridden some Campy wheels and they make a great all around wheel too. Eurus are very nice as are Proton/Neutron.
I'm sure Topos are great too. People seem to like them. I was not overly impressed with materials quality and have heard of 2 hubs separating/pulling apart/coming loose. The hubs are carbon, I guess, but feel plasticky. The spokes are cool but have strands of fiber hanging off them. They look unfinished to me. Also, the bulbous protusions near the rim make this wheel look very non-aero. Cool wheel no doubt. I have to believe it's a work in progress though. Not meant to offend. Just my impressions when I was looking to buy.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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A friend who raced in Europe described Orbea as the Spanish Schwinn. (The original company when it was family owned.) They are a huge manufacturer of many types of bikes.
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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vaxn8r,
You should try the Topolinos. You will be pleasantly surprised. They have fixed their quality issues, and they have a great product. Now all metal spoked wheels seem harsh to me, just like metal frames seem harsh to me. Carbon is the future.
It's an interesting phenomena in cycling, and I am sure in other sports as well, but when something radically different come out, everyone thumbs their noses at it. Look at aero bars until LeMond made up almost a minute on a short course. Even today, I get comments about aero bars from people who have never ridden them. Fools. Sometimes the new things don't work, look at Biopace, but other times they do, like carbon bikes.
Try carbon spokes, you might like them.
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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Yeah, I'd love to. I had the chance but they were over at different shop and I decided it wasn't worth the trouble that day. I'll try to test them later this year if they become available again.
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Bruce wrote:
Sometimes the new things don't work, look at Biopace, but other times they do, like carbon bikes.
Biopace, sounded great in theory. Anyhow, it's been born again: http://tinyurl.com/5622c That's Bobby Julich's time time trial bike.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Bruce,
I don't think the issue is really the spokes.
Personally mine is the hubs or I would have considered them. I've read so often owners rave about them and at the end comes a caveat except the rear hub becomes loose. The objection I have is also the quality of the bearings.
You know Mr. Topo was Mr. Rev X in another life. In that hub he used the same cheap off the shelf Taiwan sealed bearings that Quality sells for hardly anything. I know because we replaced them and the bearings were identical. It is my problem with other boutique wheels as well in that you don't always know who did the hub.
I really like the design of the wheels and the spokes. I'd love to try out a pair but not at those prices with mystery hubs. I have on order Elan Aero's which come with a White Industry Hub. If you buy high end Bontrager you get a DT Huigi hub. Bontrager is a good example...only their lower end Race Wheels have mystery hubs.
I believe everything you say in praise of them and more. I'd love to ride a pair. I have not a doubt they would be all you say in performance and more. Tell Topo to use a name hub and the next time I save up my pennies and I can convince my wife I really need another set of wheels I'll buy a pair.
Take care Bruce. I'm happy you are hanging around more often now. You always liven the place up! I wish some of our old phorum friends would return as well.
Lon 
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Quote:
Lon wrote:............ I wish some of our old phorum friends would return as well.
Lon
Who are you calling old!?!?!
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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You are the one called SAGE.... 
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Quote:
Lon wrote:
....... SAGE....
i thought that was a spice for chicken. 
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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I don't think you will find traditional hubs on a Topolino anytime soon. One of the areas they reduce weight is on the hubs. Also, the spokes are molded into the hubs and go straight through, so they don't have a break at the hub as all other spoke designs do.
One of the pitfalls of this design is if you do break a spoke, you have to replace the whole side of the wheel. I have seen Topolino's break, but they fix them at a reasonable cost. Actually it was not the spoke that broke, but the metal piece that screws into the traditional nipple. I think the next step in the Topolino design will be replacing those old nipple designs with something better and eliminate this area of failure.
I have never been a big fan of the early efforts by the Topolino design team. They gave us Spinergy and a few other bad designs, but I think they got this one right.
Think about it how old our traditional wheel design is, over 100 years. Time for an improvement.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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The hub could be their design but be made by a true hub manufacturer. For example the new Rolf hubs are made by White but are their design. Sapim makes their spokes to their design. When Rolf was Rolf before Rolf was Trek it was DT/Hugi that made the hubs. Now that Rolf is Rolf again he had to change suppliers I believe by agreement with Trek.
That is what I'd like to see other wheel people do.
Good to hear from you Superunleaded.
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Re: Tetra Pro or Orbea Orca?
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