BikerDoug
friend
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 88
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From cyclingnews.com:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2005/news/05-12
Interesting stuff. I guess the only good news is that the shortage will likely increase the value of my Tetra.
I also find the info about "fake" carbon parts interesting. It says some manufacturers are warping cheap aluminum and fiberglass with carbon skins and selling the item as "carbon". I wish they would name names.
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jaleel_da_sheik
new member
Reged: 02/25/05
Posts: 19
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I've seen some of these items in parts catalogs like Supergo, Performance, etc. in the road bike stems. It actually states in the part description that it is carbon fiber wrapped around aluminum, but just the idea of it is shady & misleading.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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The ones I know of do not sell their parts as all carbon. The idea is the common look with alloy to back it up. It is what I prefer in a stem particularly having had a stem fail once.
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Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Never where I want to be
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Hmmm...I read about this a month or so ago. Heightened the urgency of owning a carbon frame in my head. Let me see if I can remember/pull the source. Maybe a different perspective, no more.
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Insightdriver
captain
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
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We might keep in mind, as long as the manufacturer is up front about it, we like carbon COMPOSITES for their strenghts. Wrapping carbon fiber around aluminum is a form of composite construction, after all. There are benefits of such techniques. One application in particular that uses such a structure is in high-pressure storage tanks like used on spacecraft. These tanks withstand in the order of 4000 to 5000 PSI and the carbon wrapping allows a non-catastrophic failure mode where the burst just breaks through the wrapping. It's a much more benign way of failure considering the devastation of an explosion of a tank that has that much pressure in it.
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Insightdriver wrote:
One application in particular that uses such a structure is in high-pressure storage tanks like used on spacecraft. These tanks withstand in the order of 4000 to 5000 PSI and the carbon wrapping allows a non-catastrophic failure mode where the burst just breaks through the wrapping. It's a much more benign way of failure considering the devastation of an explosion of a tank that has that much pressure in it.
That's great when rocket scientists designs a method to contain an exploding pressure vessel, but it doesn't quite command the same respect when someone wraps carbon fiber around an Aluminum tube just to jump on the CF bandwagon.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
skuke wrote:
That's great when rocket scientists designs a method to contain an exploding pressure vessel, but it doesn't quite command the same respect when someone wraps carbon fiber around an Aluminum tube just to jump on the CF bandwagon.
Just what company is accused to wrapping their tubes. That is news to me. The only thing I have ever seen are parts and it is not the "bandwagon" but rather their build technique. I have a matching Selcof Premium seatpost, bar and stem. They are gorgeous and light. I prefer the added safety margin of both materials. Not everyone is completely sold on all carbon everything. Don't forget a Time carbon stem broke in last years Tour and some of the Easton carbon bars broke.
I had carbon when Ti was cool. (Sounds like a country song) I bought a Titec carbon post in 97 when they were rarely seen. This post had a alloy liner in the clamp area. Eventually after many many miles the carbon did break/crack but the liner kept it together. The two products work very well together for the best of both worlds.
If there is a company wrapping tubes and calling it a carbon bike that is not right. I just have no idea who is doing that. 
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Lon wrote:
Just what company is accused to wrapping their tubes. That is news to me. The only thing I have ever seen are parts and it is not the "bandwagon" but rather their build technique.
My comments were in reference to the first few posts. I have no idea who is wrapping parts! I also didn't mean to imply that frame tubes were wrapped, but like the first few posters, meant various components are being wrapped in CF.
Do you believe most of the companies combining CF with "whatever material" is really designing (engineering, analysis, testing...) the part to be a better component rather than joining the bandwagon and grabbing some market share? I mean really engineering the component ...like how CF was engineered to help contain a 5K PSI pressure vessel ...and not just "hey-that-sounds-like-a-great-idea-that-should-work-and-sell-well".
Quote:
Don't forget a Time carbon stem broke in last years Tour and some of the Easton carbon bars broke.
Don't forget that I have a Kestral EMS carbon fork that is broken into three pieces!
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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"" "Do you believe most of the companies combining CF with "whatever material" is really designing (engineering, analysis, testing...) the part to be a better component rather than joining the bandwagon and grabbing some
market share?"
YES. Alpha Q has had the insert sleeve for years. They could not wrap around it as it has to be where you are clamping. You glue it in instead.
Titec's original carbon fiber designs had a sleeve or insert. Again it was for the advantages of carbon without any risk of catastophic failure. Knowing a friend who was almost castrated by one of the original Easton posts I think it was a good idea.
Selcof did design them for that reason. The bar is carbon wrap just where it shows. They are not trying to pass it off as all carbon as the rest is clearly alloy. It just matches the stem. Just like the original Titec designs and Alpha Q there is alloy used in vital clamping areas. At 200 pounds on terrible roads for pot holes and such I am very happy to have that extra measure of safety.
If it isn't marketing hype and I don't think it is the nano technology of Easton as well as last year's monocoque designs are very interesting. They could prove to be a great step forward.
Not everyone is on this "Total Carbon" bandwagon. There are those that like the look to match bikes and such but not necessarily feel it is the best material in all applications for the long haul. Don't foget the pros don't use parts as long as we do.
In a like vein a friend just told me CSC has asked for an aluminum rim from their all carbon vendor. Again they are probably looking for using that material when it is best.
We can agree to disagree however there are specific examples such as Titec and Alpha Q where the marriage of alloy and carbon was not bandwagon jumping or marketing hype. It probably would not be that hard to find others. I'd for example check just how FSA reinforces the crank arms...
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