bigdeal
new member
Reged: 03/11/05
Posts: 8
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Hi all, been watching the forum for a while, finally my long-running build is 95% done....time to put The Black Magic Woman to the test. She's been around the block a few times (no pun intended) with no incident other than the settling cables, which is to be expected. The question was, how confident am I in my build skills? Sure, it's my second bike I've built on my own...and given the lessons I learned on the first I'm 'fairly' confident.
So I rolled out yesterday morning to CalTrain (3 miles away), no problem. My initial reaction: this is nice. Took a couple of corners tighter than normal and was pleasantly reassured by the 'feel'. Also, I certainly don't cringe over bumps as much as I do on The Foxy Lady ('03 Merckx Team SC).
Ok, fast forward about 9 1/2 hours and the workday is done. Changed into the gear, filled a water bottle, and grabbed my Clif bar. Got on the road in San Mateo around 615ish for the typical commute home to San Jose (30 miles), mostly flat and on decent roads.
10 miles in I'm thinking, wow, this is nice and smooth. 20 miles in I'm thinking, WOW, THIS IS SMOOTH. At this point I start going through some rough patches of road that I normally avoid at all costs on The Foxy Lady....I was again pleasantly reassured by the 'feel'. The Foxy Lady seems to hop around a bit on the rough when I get off the saddle, but The Black Magic Woman doesn't as much...NICE.
Mile 25-30 contains a crossing of both San Thomas Expressway and Lawrence Expressway. The Commuter God(s) must have been smiling on me and I caught green lights at both which allowed me to wind up the sprint and go through the intersections among the traffic. Another difference noted when winding up the sprint: not as 'explosive' as the Team SC. Not that it's flexy BY ANY MEANS. I noticed the lack of derailleur rub when mashing/sprinting at 33+, something I've only ever noticed on the SC. It's hard to describe, but it somehow felt less 'snappy'. On The Foxy Lady I hear Phil Liggit in my head and feel like I'm part of the Fassa train...on The Black Magic Woman I didn't hear Phil, but my speed was the same. So, it's probably what I like to refer to as 'the marketing affect'.
Another difference on sprints is that The Foxy Lady feels like it's me, my burning legs, and a bike; during the sprints while The Black Magic Woman feels like just me and my burning legs.
Mile 30, rollin' into the drive way I thought to myself 'wow, I feel less beat up'. I don't know if it's real or 'the marketing affect' again, I'll be able to tell for sure after another couple of hundred miles, but one thing is for sure and that's that the CALFEE ROCKS!
For those wondering: yes, it was the same wheelset as on the SC and at the same PSI, and the same (make/model) saddle.
Spec:
'Off the peg' 54 Luna (Clear, hence the name)
04 Chorus RD - NOS
05 IRD Compact FDerailleur
05 Chorus Brake/Shift/Brifters
05 Chorus Brake Calipers
05 FSA Energy Compact
05 FSA BB
Chris King NoThreadSet (Red)
Deda Einstein 100 stem
Deda 215 bars
Bar Tape: None, that's the remaining 5%
Alien Alu seatpost (Red)
Fizik Aliante (Black)
Look CX7 (Black)
Wheelset: AC Sprint 350, SAPIMs, 28h f/r
Tires: Velomax Pave
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Mike_Carmel
new member
Reged: 06/07/05
Posts: 7
Loc: California, USA
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Congratulations Big Deal! I just received my new Tetra Custom 2 weeks ago and share your enthusiasm. My only complaint has been a slipping seat post (Easton carbon), that should be resolved shortly.
My specs:
62" Tetra Custom - Ferrari Red
Campy Record groupo
Mavic Ksyrium SL Wheels
Chris King Headset
Fizik saddle
Shimano DuraAce petals
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OnYerLeft
new member
Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 35
Loc: CA, USA
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welcome to the calfee family! that's a great review. we need more stories about people's experiences with their bikes (not necessarily just calfees). most of the time i'm stuck here at work and i just live vicariously through other riders' stories and comments about their rides and bikes. i just imagine that i'm the one riding out there instead--it's such a great, albeit temporary, escape. i used to live in san mateo so i can relate some.
i have the same impression...my tetra pro does not feel as snappy (as my other bike)--however, it's probably a sensation that doesn't translate to being "flexy". the computer reads about the same, if not faster, speed. it's probably just the vibration-absorption characteristics of the frame that makes it seem that way (i.e. less snappy). i guess it's all about personal preference for "feel" and whether it affects performance. there must be a trade-off somewhere between razor sharp snappy feel and the ability to absorb road chatter. i know that the "less snappy" feel of my tetra does not sacrifice performance but to the contrary. that's why i'm very happy with my stealth baby.
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Mike_Carmel wrote:
My only complaint has been a slipping seat post (Easton carbon), that should be resolved shortly.
You are aware that you're not supposed to grease the seatpost, right?
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
bigdeal wrote:
Mile 30, rollin' into the drive way I thought to myself 'wow, I feel less beat up'.
Those were my exact words "I feel less beat up"! For me, it was only after a 40-50 mile ride that I felt better. Less than 30 miles seemed to not make any difference (as far a being 'beat up' was concerned). I came from a steel Bianchi crit bike.
Hey, take the 'long way' home. San Mateo, up Ralston, up Kings, south on Skyline and down 9 into SJ!! BMW (Black Magic Woman) wasn't made for commuting on the flats! :-) I used to ride something similar when I worked in Burlingame and lived in west SJ.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Insightdriver
captain
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
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I have 600 miles on my Custom Tetra Pro now and I am still very pleased with it. As far as snap is concerned, I notice that when I am out of the saddle and just standing on the pedals she accelerates very quickly. When I am sitting up and spinning slight illregularities in my spin cause the bike to move around quite a bit. I notice no flex in my bike out of saddle. I get no derailleur rub. With the Ultegra build I have on her I can upshift while out of the saddle, each shift banging into place. When I downshift fast my pedal drops as the chain suddenly shortens its so fast.
The sun glistens off the clear coat and the grain of the carbon wrap and tubes shows depth. It's my ride, with all that I need living in a city, including a strong cable lock that I wrap around my aluminum stem so that I don't have it wrapped around anything carbon. My seat bag is crammed full with a spare tube in plastic bag filled with some baby powder, a mini CO2 pump, tube patches, tire irons and a multi-tool. I would lose over three pounds on my bike if I didn't take my seat bag, two water bottles and lock.
I ride about 1/3 a greater distance on my Calfee than I did on my previous ride with the same effort. I started riding aproximately two miles per hour faster when I shifted from my previous ride to my Calfee. In 600 miles I have had no cable stretch or loosening of the bottom bracket. My wheels remained true. I did have a slight loosening of my Chris King headset. The only quality of build issue I had when I received my bike was a loose water bottle cage nut and a loose computer bracket clamp.
I have high hopes and expectations for my ride. I expect the frame to outlast me. I hope the componenets have a lot of durability. Knock on wood, I haven't had my first spill on her yet.
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 187
Loc: Plano, TX
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Quote:
Mike_Carmel wrote:
My only complaint has been a slipping seat post (Easton carbon)
Just out of curiosity, what causes the slip. I have a Luna Pro that does the same thing with an ALpha Q carbon seatpost. It annoys me to no end. 
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Pintsized
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/05
Posts: 90
Loc: Corvallis OR
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It sure is fun having a nifty new bike, isn't it? I have about 400 miles on the new Luna now and I've noticed some of the same good things. Mainly in terms of responsiveness. I continue to be amazed. Acceleration is fast, it's very steady when I'm standing and sprinting. I can upshift while standing without moving all over the road -- I couldn't on the Cannondale. Presumably some of this is just that I now have a Dura Ace drivetrain, but still.... Also takes surprise shocks well. I hit one of those road reflectors at a glancing angle the other day. The Luna bounced off but it stayed upright and it didn't seem like a sharp hit.
My husband has his own name for my bike, Barely Legal, in view of the 15.5 lb weight; he couldn't be referring to his elderly wifey. The only operating adjustment that was needed is retightening the shifter cables.
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BikeWNC
new member
Reged: 09/03/04
Posts: 23
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I received my Luna frame back in Feb. but only just completed the build in the past month. I think I may have 5 rides on it now. My other bike is an Indy Fab Ti Crown Jewel and it has been interesting comparing the rides of the two bikes. While the IF remains my primary bike, I live in the mountains and it is setup with a triple, I have really enjoyed the Luna Pro. I did a century on the Calfee this past weekend and it was very comfortable.
Both bikes absorb road chatter. I think the best way to describe the difference is to say that the Ti bike has a slight ring to it. Like the sound of a bell but also muted somewhat. The carbon frame seems to do a better job of preventing the ringing effect capturing the primary note but dampening the secondary harmonics.
I thought that carbon would mean a loss of some road feel. In an absolute sense, compared to the Ti bike that is true. But this weekend on the century ride I never felt that wooden character often given to carbon. In fact, I can't really think of a time when I gave much thought to the frame at all. There was a nice blend of road feel and comfort that at times made the bike disappear. Isn't that what we really want from a bike?
When climbing, the IF is springier, the Luna snappier. I climb seated, spinning, and the IF seems to work well with my cadence as if giving something back to my effort. The Calfee on the other hand has a different feel. I tend to want to get out of the saddle more on this bike. Mostly because out of saddle efforts are rewarded more on the Luna. Not that I can't stand or sprint on the IF, cause it is very stable when doing so, it is just a subtle but obvious difference between these two bikes.
As for handling, The slightly lower BB on the Luna lends a little more stability to the bike over the CJ. Geometry on the two bikes is very similar, with the Luna having 74/72.25 and the IF 74/72 angles. Chainstay lengths are the same at 41.5 as are Ht length and fork rake at 4.0. Wheelbase is the same on both bikes at 101 cm. The IF is a little more responsive bike, turning in a little quicker, while the Luna likes to carve though a turn. Both are ultimately predictable and I find do not require a lot of attention to keep on line.
I'm lucky to have two great bikes. Either would make most riders happy. Of course, the IF was built for me and your bike would be different as specified. I ordered the Luna before the recent price increase and I feel it was a smoking deal for what I got. My only issue with the Luna is the offset BB. I may need to find a spacer to even out the distance on the left and right side.
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Mike_Carmel
new member
Reged: 06/07/05
Posts: 7
Loc: California, USA
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Umlungu - Skuke may actually be close ... my dealer thinks there is just not enough friction on the bottom part of the carbon seatpost. We're working on a solution now - I'll let you when we resolve this.
As great as Calfee bikes are, riding with a collapsed seat is no fun.
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 187
Loc: Plano, TX
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Quote:
Mike_Carmel wrote:
Umlungu - Skuke may actually be close ... my dealer thinks there is just not enough friction on the bottom part of the carbon seatpost. We're working on a solution now - I'll let you when we resolve this.
As great as Calfee bikes are, riding with a collapsed seat is no fun.
I couldn't agree more with your last comment.  At first I thought I didn't have the clamp torqued properly, then I thought it was just a result of hours in the saddle on a hot day. Nice to see that I'm not the only one experiencing this and that someone is actually looking into it!
Keep me posted.
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Mike_Carmel wrote:
Umlungu - Skuke may actually be close ... my dealer thinks there is just not enough friction on the bottom part of the carbon seatpost. We're working on a solution now - I'll let you when we resolve this.
FWIW, Craig Calfee told me directly not to grease the seat post. ...I have an aluminum seat post...
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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Count me as one who tried and failed the CF seat post experiment. Two different Deda Blacksticks. Neither worked. Nothing worked. I now have a Thompson Masterpiece and it works like a charm.
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ndr
friend
Reged: 08/10/04
Posts: 27
Loc: Los Altos, CA
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Just finished the Tahoe 100mi ride last Sunday on my Tetra Pro and can report that my 61 year old body did not feel beat up at all. The legs, of course, were tired but the rest of me was OK. On my old aluminum frame my body would give out before the legs. It is also amazing how the Calfee absorbed the shock from the potholes.
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Mike_Carmel
new member
Reged: 06/07/05
Posts: 7
Loc: California, USA
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The plan to stablize the seatpost is simply to remove it, and sand (zero-grit paper) the clear coat carbon post beneath the surface to increase the friction with the tube.
I'll be riding this weekend, and will report back on the results.
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Mike_Carmel wrote:
The plan to stablize the seatpost is simply to remove it, and sand (zero-grit paper) the clear coat carbon post beneath the surface to increase the friction with the tube.
I'm confused. "Zero grit" (were it to exist) would be like one sharp rock glued to a piece of paper. The lower the grit number, the coarser the paper. ie. 60 grit paper is rougher than 400 grit paper.
IMHO, I wouldn't recommend using very coarse sandpaper to remove the clear coat. You'd scratch the heck out of the carbon when removing the clear coat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but CF is not one of those materials that takes kindly to scratches. The scratches will be a starting point for crack propagation. It is prone to notch sensitivity and you'll have a weaker seatpost. Also, removing the clear coat will, in effect, make the diameter smaller and exacerbate your problem.
If by "zero grit" you mean super smooth paper, as in no grit or non-existent grit, then all you'll be doing is polishing. I have some 1 micron paper. It's VERY smooth and for the most part, "zero grit". It does an excellent job of polishing! I think you want to avoid polishing as much as you want to avoid scratching.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Insightdriver
captain
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
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Quote:
skuke wrote:
I'm confused. "Zero grit" (were it to exist) would be like one sharp rock glued to a piece of paper. The lower the grit number, the coarser the paper. ie. 60 grit paper is rougher than 400 grit paper.
IMHO, I wouldn't recommend using very coarse sandpaper to remove the clear coat. You'd scratch the heck out of the carbon when removing the clear coat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but CF is not one of those materials that takes kindly to scratches. The scratches will be a starting point for crack propagation. It is prone to notch sensitivity and you'll have a weaker seatpost. Also, removing the clear coat will, in effect, make the diameter smaller and exacerbate your problem.
If by "zero grit" you mean super smooth paper, as in no grit or non-existent grit, then all you'll be doing is polishing. I have some 1 micron paper. It's VERY smooth and for the most part, "zero grit". It does an excellent job of polishing! I think you want to avoid polishing as much as you want to avoid scratching.
Sanding a carbon tube will not cause crack propagation. Being notch sensitive means a sharp-edged tool would crack the tube. Sanding can take off the clear coat and can sand a bit of the carbon matrix without causing damage to the seat tube.I would rather take off clear coat with a thinner for varnish. That won't attack the epoxy matrix nor the carbon fiber.
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Mike_Carmel
new member
Reged: 06/07/05
Posts: 7
Loc: California, USA
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The idea is to "roughen-up" the ultra-slick clear coat finish with a fine sandpaper without compromising the carbon.
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Montaque
new member
Reged: 09/14/04
Posts: 24
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My Thompson Elite seatpost was prone to slipping.
A thin application of toothpaste resolved the issue.
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spted
new member
Reged: 11/03/04
Posts: 11
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My LBS used the toothpaste trick as well. . . it worked for me and my Dragonfly w/FSA carbon seatpost.
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Insightdriver wrote:
Sanding a carbon tube will not cause crack propagation.
No, not sanding per se.
But are you saying that if the poster used rough sandpaper (60 grit or less) (or "zero grit") all those large cutting edges would not cut the heck out of the individual fibers and thus create weak points from which further tears and cuts can emanate? Sure sounds like crack propagation to me.
Quote:
Being notch sensitive means a sharp-edged tool would crack the tube.
I thought notch sensitivity referred to the propensity for a material to further fracture/tear/crack from a point of concentrated weakness.
The "sharp-edge tool" can create that localized point of weakness. A broad-edge tool would create a less localized weak point. All else being equal, a larger area for a given stress to concentrate is less notch sensitive than a small area.
But what do I know, I'm not a materials engineer. Or any kind of engineer for that matter. I'm just a nursing student and soon-to-be former machinist.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Insightdriver
captain
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
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carbon fiber tubes can be sanded to a thiner profile if you want to. There will be a reduction in the load carrying capacity of the tube, but there will be no crack-propagation. Cracks propagate in materials that have a granular structure. A carbon fiber matrix does not have such a granualar structure so a crack won't propaget through it like it would a material such as glass.
You can google search on carbon fiber properties and learn more if you want to. To assume based on limited knowledge something about the properties of complex composite structures such as carbon fiber with epoxy will do no good. It just continues to propagate misunderstanding of just how strong carbon fiber products actually are compared to metals.
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Mike_Carmel
new member
Reged: 06/07/05
Posts: 7
Loc: California, USA
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The sanding worked - at least so far. Two short (about 30 miles each), but hilly and somewhat bumpy rides, and the seat held firm.
Apparently Hector (Winning Wheels, Pacific Grove owner), consulted with Craig and they also decided to take a couple of inches off the bottom of the seat tube as well.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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Your LBS calling Craig made me think how super it is to have him always just a phone call away to solve problems and answer questions.
The second is Dean. If Craig isn't there or Dean answers the phone it is just as great.
I have to get there someday.
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bigdeal
new member
Reged: 03/11/05
Posts: 8
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whitening or non? what flavor? ;-)
also, would a bit of 'snobbery' be involved? if so, use nothing other than rembrandt......
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Two More Reasons for Buying A Calfee