skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
vaxn8r wrote:
either bike will handle the rain and elements with ease.
Time for a new thread.
...so which bike do you like better on wet roads? Why?
Favorite tires? Change the tire pressure?
Do you ride slower, (corner, downhill) in the wet? I ask this because I think I corner and downhill with about the same speed and aggressiveness regardless if the roads are wet or dry.
I do not a push corners hard or downhill fast by any stretch of the imagination! In fact, I consider myself slow when compared with the people I normally ride with. However when the roads are wet, I tend to leave most behind. I can't imagine myself actually riding faster in the wet, so the alternative must be that the others are more conservative and riding slower.
I think I get away with this because I know that I'm never near the limits of the tires in the dry and have LOTS of margin to spare. I therefore continue with the status quo on aggressiveness and hope I still stay within the tire's limits. I also know that bike tires won't hydroplane. I'm also comfortable sliding my mtn bike and not completely uncomfortable sliding on the road. I have a strong snow ski background and transitions between carving and sliding is like second nature to me.
Am I pushing the odds? Probably. But then I've never fallen on wet roads either. knock. knock.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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NoBrakes
new member
Reged: 06/08/05
Posts: 19
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I push the downhills and corners to the limit every chance I get. Which I have been counseled on more than one occasion by more than one person. I needed to give it a break, because if I ever go down at 50+ mph, which is what clock every time I ride. If that happens and I live, it will probably take my 52 year old body a while to heal the damage that I'll do to it at that speed.
However, I don't change anything when it's wet, except I will notch it down to about 80% of what could do on a curve or corner.
I need to ride like you with a good level of margin. After so many years it's so hard to change, but it is a well needed change I will have to learn how to make for myself.
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Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Never where I want to be
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How about post ride cleaning? Wipe it down? Break it down? What do you do? Anything?
I got caught (well, I knew what was coming) yesterday in a massive downpour. I was soaked. When I got back I wiped my bike down, chain, pullies, all that, pulled the seat post and turned it upside down. Water ran out. Let it hang for a bit. Then last night I pulled the cranks and B.B. and wiped that standing water out. Messy.
I'll probably clean all the cassette cogs and relube the chain when I put it back together. But that's it.
Oh...in the rain, I like the bike I'm riding the most. Although on my Litespeed I deal with the anxiety of thinking ab out all the cleaning I have to do when it's over. I also have this bike that when I ride this in the rain* I don't worry at all. Just ride. One gear, Fixed. At one with the world.
*Get caught in it 
Edited by Nev (11/01/05 07:31 PM)
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wheelwing
new member
Reged: 02/03/05
Posts: 5
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I'm a pretty conservative (read: scaredy-cat) cornerer in the best of conditions, and I definitely take 'em even slower when the rains come, as they have with a vengeance here in the Pacific NW. I've laid the bike down turning into the unexpected patch of wet grass clippings and, well, once bitten twice shy, I guess. Cautionary tale: the week before last a friend's husband was cruising downhill fast & the bike edged out onto a recently-rained-on reflective road stripe & he went down hard: knocked out cold, broken hip & collarbone.
Yesterday's commute saw what is usually the bike path I follow turned into a series of small lakes, complete with families of ducks paddling about. Not having the heart or sense to backtrack, and not truly believing that the water could be more than an inch or two deep over the path, I forged ahead--plowing into water that was over my bottom bracket & up over my wheel hubs before I was through. Oops. I should note that this is my hearty commuter, with Veloce/Mirage bits, not my Record/Chorus Calfee, that I put through this trauma.
My usual cleaning routine after a wet commute would probably make my LBS wrenches wince: I hose the whole thing down with a low-pressure stream of water, then give a high-pressure blast to the rims & brake pads. Dry off the chain with a rag, and then that's about it. If I've got time (and at least once a week during the wet winters) I clean the rims & brakepads more thoroughly by hand. Thoroughly clean & grease the chain, too (I found a lube, called A.T.B.--"Absolutely The Best"--that sheds grime & endures pretty well through repeated rains & rinses).
All that said, and back to the original question, I actually do prefer to ride the Calfee on wet roads over the Bianchi commuter ("San Remo" - a light tourer w/fenders & rack). Handling is so much surer with the Luna. But I don't like to subject it to too much road grit. Got some strap-on Race Blade fenders for when I just can't say no to the Luna.
Haven't changed tires for the season, nor run at lower pressure, but I did just get some Panaracer Stradius Pro's 'cause they're cheap at Performance right now & they're good in the wet without sacrificing much in terms of suppleness or weight.
Didn't realize I had so much to say about riding in the wet. Final word(s): GORE-TEX SOCKS!
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Pintsized
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/05
Posts: 90
Loc: Corvallis OR
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Oh here I am home with a cold...already, you say?? So did I !...and up pops my all time favorite topic. If you live in the NW, you know about riding in the rain, all too well.
I don't take the Calfee out in crappy weather. Well, I got caight out one time last week. Never again; I just think all that grit can't be good for a nice bike. All the same, the cleanup wasn't all that horrible. Nothing filled with water -- no bottom bracket mess, no head tube mess (the Chris King lives up to its billing). Cleanup was, I waited for it to dry, wiped the frame off with a clean cloth, and then soaked out the chain and cassette. Remember to turn the bike over and clean off the bottom. I only soaked out the chain and cassette because I wasn't planning to ride it again till spring...if i can stand it. Otherwise, I would have just cleaned and relubed the chain in the usual on-the-bike way. I like Dumonde winter grade lube. It stays on pretty good in the wet and it isn't as gunky as triflow, which I used to use. I do a monthly clean and soak (no, not of me, of the bike parts!) so the easy after ride cleaning is ok.
For the next few months, its the old Cannondale, now with full fenders. The weight isn't too bad and it keeps the bike parts and me a whole lot cleaner. Don't bother with a downtube protector though...they get knocked out of whack too easy, and all they keep clean is the bottle..waste of money. Even a little lady like me can just wipe it with her shirt. Tires? I use the Continental Fusion Comps but at 650 c I don't have lots of choices. Mainly, what I want is a kevlar belt. Any tire with a Kevlar belt is nice because of better puncture protection..in my experience. That's what I prioritize anyhow. If you ride a 700 c like most people, you have lots of choices for kevlar belts. Note: Kevlar bead is another thing...the bead makes it foldable, but the belt makes it harder.
Speed: You bet I slow down. And how. My 55 year old body is (cluck, cluck, cluck)! If I'm going to break something, let it be in a race, for heaven's sake, not some off-season endurance ride. 
Other tires I hear folks around here like are the Specialized armadillo tires, the Michelin Carbon (very puncture proof say several friends), and even the Kenda Koncepts. These latter are dirt cheap but that may be their only merit. Have heard surprisingly not so good reports about the Continental gatorskins...some folks have told me they didn't have fewer flates with them then with their summer Contis.
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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Wheelwing, I could have written your post. We think alike.
I rode a OCLV with fenders, flaps. It is a tight fit but it works. I rides 23c tires only because I can't get anything bigger under the fenders. I pump them up to 100-110 psi.
I definitely take corners easier. Just last Saturday, raining gently, wet road and the corner had a patch of grass clippings, I had zero traction so I finally got the bike stopped and had to restart. I've gone down on wet corners.With leaves, manhole covers, all kinds of schtuff on the road that's hard to see when it's wet, it just is not worth goin down hard. So I think you guys who don't lay off in the wet are a little crazy. It's not like you're being paid zillion bucks to lay it on the line. Not to mention, if one in the group goes down, likely so does everyone behind you. Not cool!
I ride with a group of 20 or more on weekends and if you don't show up with fenders and flaps you aren't really accepted. Strap on's are not acceptable on a group ride!
I also hose the bike off gently after each rain ride and also hit the rims hard. Then I bounce the big drops off, go clean myself up and then come out to lube the drivetrain with Bullshot.
Then I towel any other muck off. I like to keep the frame waxed every month or so because it really aids clean-up. I do a complete bike and hub overhaul at least once a year or more if I put a ton of rain miles on in one year. Better to put some money and time into maintenance then to come out for a ride and your Record hubs are frozen and trashed. (Yeah, I admit that happened to me...though only because I had just had it in the shop, I thought they had repacked the hubs and they hadn't. Expensive mistake.)
Any ride in the rain is a bonus ride as far as I'm concerned. One of the best was with Gasman 2 winters ago. Temperature about 32-34 deg and raining. We got 35 miles in and a lot of wonderous looks from drivers. Gotta love it!
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
NoBrakes wrote:
I needed to give it a break, because if I ever go down at 50+ mph, which is what clock every time I ride.
Where do you live? I have to work my butt off to hit 45-48mph in the San Francisco south/west bay and peninsula. But then I weigh about 133lbs.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Nev wrote:
How about post ride cleaning? Wipe it down? Break it down? What do you do? Anything?
First, I guess I should clarify that I don't leave for a ride if it's raining. But if I get caught while out on a ride, I lube the chain (White Lightening), cogs, moving parts etc., when I get home. I don't bother wiping it down too much other than to keep water from dripping all over the place.
I do remove the tires and tubes to let the cloth rim strip dry. You learn to do that when you get a flat several weeks after getting caught in the rain and discover some real ugliness growing on the tape!
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Pintsized wrote:
I don't take the Calfee out in crappy weather. Well, I got caight out one time last week. Never again; I just think all that grit can't be good for a nice bike.
It ain't good for crap bikes either. :-)
Quote:
Any tire with a Kevlar belt is nice because of better puncture protection..in my experience.
Just curious, how do you quantify that? And do you use Kevlar belted tires in the dry, or switch tires?
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
vaxn8r wrote:
So I think you guys who don't lay off in the wet are a little crazy. It's not like you're being paid zillion bucks to lay it on the line. Not to mention, if one in the group goes down, likely so does everyone behind you. Not cool!
No, not cool.
However, I'm little confused with those that slow down alot in the wet. I think slowing down only lessens the impact speed with the ground. Yes, that's a good thing, but I don't see how slowing down, per se, will reduce your chances of falling in the wet.
I've thought about my crashes. Most of them happened so fast that there was little if anything I could do to avoid it. I had no time to react. I reached that point of impending crash before I understood what was happening and could do anything about it. Of course, if I had the time to react, then most probably, by definition, I didn't crash! So my point is that crashes happen SO fast, I don't see how slowing down 25% (or whatever) will prevent the crash. The other way I've avoided a crash is just plain 'ol luck. Sometime you just do the right thing and everything works out.
Slowing down will buy you some reaction time to SEE the manhole cover, painted line etc. But if you hit the WET manhole cover on a dry day or a wet day, it's just as slippery. I don't think a few mph difference or a few milliseconds (microseconds?) will buy you the time to react if you're already on the cover and sliding out. Nobody's reactions are that fast. The slowing down only allows you to better see and anticipate and thus avoid the manhole cover altogether.
Slowing down works in cars because car tires hydroplane. Bike tires do not hydroplane. At least not at speeds we are normally capable of attaining.
Quote:
Any ride in the rain is a bonus ride as far as I'm concerned. ... We got 35 miles in...
I once rode ~35 miles in southwestern France. Driving rain with incredible gusts. The kind of rain where the wipers on you car would be on High and still not keep your windshield clear. I had full rain gear, no fenders (not that either would have made ANY difference.) I was soaked, but not too cold and mostly afraid of the cars that could not see us. And, I think highly of French drivers and their very courteous attitude towards cyclist. Anyhow, that ride was not a bonus.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Quote:
skuke wrote:
I once rode ~35 miles in southwestern France. Driving rain with incredible gusts. The kind of rain where the wipers on you car would be on High and still not keep your windshield clear. I had full rain gear, no fenders (not that either would have made ANY difference.) I was soaked, but not too cold and mostly afraid of the cars that could not see us. And, I think highly of French drivers and their very courteous attitude towards cyclist. Anyhow, that ride was not a bonus.
I spent two weeks in Germany and Austria cycling this year. It rained for a large part of that time. It was so bad, rivers overflowed their banks and some villages in the Alps were washed away. Innsbruck was flooded and the Danube, a huge river and an international shipping channel, overflowed its banks in some places. We had to ride as our hotels were arranged and our luggage was transferred daily, so we had no choice. Luckily we purchased complete rain gear in Salzburg before the trip so we remained pretty dry. The rain came down so hard sometimes that we were faster than the cars. I have to give credit to the drivers though, particularly in Austria, we never felt threatened by cars and they were always courteous to us and gave us plenty of room.
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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NoBrakes
new member
Reged: 06/08/05
Posts: 19
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Quote:
skuke wrote:
Where do you live? I have to work my butt off to hit 45-48mph in the San Francisco south/west bay and peninsula. But then I weigh about 133lbs.
At the top of a big hill in San Clemente, and I weigh 187 lbs. So without any effort at all I'll hit 50+ mph within a 1/2 mile of my house. If the wind is blowing in the right direction, and I wined it out in the beginning it will be 55+mph. I have been doing this for over 16 years with no crashes. Once I had a spoke in my back wheel break from the hub on me during my daily decent, which was scary at that speed. So, big hill + big rider + big # of descents could = a big crash sooner or later. So it's time to learn how to relax, but that feels like it's going to be hard to do. Any ideas on how that's done?
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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Dave,
Pardon me for detouring this thread but have you described your European cycling ventures elswhere in this forum? Hope to make similar trips in the future. IRT descending wet roads at speed...it's not worth the risk but 'continental' riding/touring in almost any weather condition is.
Richard
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
NoBrakes wrote:
So it's time to learn how to relax, but that feels like it's going to be hard to do. Any ideas on how that's done?
You won't like my answer; crash. Unfortunately, that may only work for a few days to years. Then you resort to the "old" ways and will have to crash again.
Getting somebody really important in your life or somebody that really depends on you may help. But at your age, I hope you already knew that.
Redevelop the instinct for self preservation.
Please do not crash!!! Keep the rubber side down.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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NoBrakes
new member
Reged: 06/08/05
Posts: 19
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Quote:
skuke wrote:
You won't like my answer; crash. Unfortunately, that may only work for a few days to years. Then you resort to the "old" ways and will have to crash again.
Getting somebody really important in your life or somebody that really depends on you may help. But at your age, I hope you already knew that.
Redevelop the instinct for self preservation.
Please do not crash!!! Keep the rubber side down.
You're right I don't care for your first answer, and your second answer you're right again, I know that. It's just making the decision to change it, and taking the action. Which is what I am going to do today for those two very important people in my life. Thanks!
Back to wet conditions:
I do not mind riding in wet conditions, but that's not a big problem where I live. If it does rain, it's usually in the winter and all I do is ride a little harder on the flats and up the hills to stay warm. I also have an old pair of Look insulated booties I'll wear, if I decide to ride in the rain. For no more rain than we get in southern California there's very little change needed for a cycling, maybe degrease your bike after the ride. I find that there is a lot oil and grime on left my bike after riding in wet conditions from our overused rain deprived roads. If it is rainy I usually do not ride, because I have plenty of other nice days to ride.
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 721
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Quote:
RDP wrote:
Dave,
Pardon me for detouring this thread but have you described your European cycling ventures elswhere in this forum? Hope to make similar trips in the future. IRT descending wet roads at speed...it's not worth the risk but 'continental' riding/touring in almost any weather condition is.
Richard
Richard: Drop me an e-mail and I'll be happy to discuss my Euro touring with you.
Dave
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Pintsized
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/05
Posts: 90
Loc: Corvallis OR
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About the tires: A few years ago, I used to use the Mich Pro Race in summer and kept em on in the winter. Why change, I thought? Well, I got more flats once it got wet, usually because of glass getting in. I mean, I found the little shard when I changed the tube. I went to the Fusions comps and other Kevlar belted and got way fewer flats...hardly any in fact. So I kind of inferred the belt made the difference. I assume I just can't see the glass very well when the road is wet and have resigned myself to picking up more of it.
If the Pro Race is a kevlar belt, then so much for that explanation ! But I don't think it has that in it.
I think your point (or Mr. No Brakes?) has an interesting point about the differences slowing down doesn't make. Never thought about it that way. I do slow down for reasons of reaction time, but also to be able to use the brakes on a straight. COuld I really get the same things done just by shifting, in the same stopping distance? Am I missing something?
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Pintsized
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/05
Posts: 90
Loc: Corvallis OR
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Do any of you folks use special wet weather cycling tights for wet but not frigid climates? I wear knee pants or tights, but the ones I have aren't waterproof or even marketed as such. The tights are lined so not bad for warmth, but once they're real wet it's all over. So when it's below just 50 outside, and I get real wet, I get pretty cold. Fenders notwithstanding; it isn't my butt that gets the worst of it.
I see that Performance makes something they bill as having windproof and waterproof panels. It seems to be a knockoff of the P-I amfib tights. I tried it on, but I didn't feel comfortable over bike shorts. And without the shorts, there was no padding. And that didn't seem like a good idea either. Assuming I didn't just have the wrong size...I think I didn't...what am I missing?
So far, I just cut a ride short if I start to get too cold. I wonder what my other options are, besides spin classes (which I like, too) and just to grin and bear it. Well, just bear it; after a while, I don't feel much like grinning.
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Pintsized
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/05
Posts: 90
Loc: Corvallis OR
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Not to be tedious but...yes I use neoprene booties. As another writer said, these are really a help. And the top clothes seem to work fine. Long sleeve jersey and wind vest, and once it starts raining, one of those plastic rain toppers (the clear ones that velcro down the front) seem to keep me real happy. At least most days around here. No , these jackets are not breathable but they keep you dry and they live in the jersey when it isn't actually raining.
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Pintsized wrote:
I got more flats once it got wet, usually because of glass getting in.
<snip>
I assume I just can't see the glass very well when the road is wet and have resigned myself to picking up more of it.
Not seeing them is partially right. But again, reaction times (and safe group riding) would probably preclude you from taking fast evasive actions to avoid the glass.
I think most of the reason for more flats comes from the adhesion properties the water provides. Sorta like when you lick your fingers to turn a page. The glass sticks to the front tire long enough for it to get thrown into the path of the oncoming rear tire. When that happens enough times, you get a puncture! The wet tire just allow more of the glass to get thrown. If you ran over the same amount of glass in the dry, many more would just get "run over". ...rather than get stuck and thrown.
Quote:
Pintsized wrote:
If the Pro Race is a kevlar belt, then so much for that explanation
I've been using Pro Race for quite a few years now. I'm pretty sure they don't have a Kevlar belt. They do have a Kevlar bead. I also notice that they flat more as they wear out. ...duh, thinner tread!
Quote:
Pintsized wrote:
I think your point (or Mr. No Brakes?) has an interesting point about the differences slowing down doesn't make. Never thought about it that way. I do slow down for reasons of reaction time, but also to be able to use the brakes on a straight. COuld I really get the same things done just by shifting, in the same stopping distance? Am I missing something?
Thanks.
I'm not sure what you mean by "...same things done just by shifting, in the same stopping distance." As you're aware, brakes stop a bike, shifting does not. Shifting is only to keep your legs at the desired cadence for the desired road speed. ...which also applies to corner exit speeds, uphill/downhill etc.
Braking during the straights is generally considered the safest method to slow down in preparation for a corner. In the wet, most people are taught to do ALL their braking in the straight and NEVER brake in the corner. IMHO, that may be the safest, but not the fastest way around a corner.
As a racer, Pintsize, you should also be interested in the fastest way around a corner. Get some elbow/knee/hip pads and wrist guards. Practice braking on a soft, wet, grassy field and then again while turning. Learn how much you can brake, for how long, and while leaned over how much. Learn to use the rear brake as well as the front. Yeah, you'll fall a bunch. You may even get a little hurt, but hopefully the environment and protective gear will minimize that. If you're scared, and you should certainly be hesitant, you can even start on a BMX bike. They're smaller and you'll be closer to the ground (you won't fall as far). After a day of crashing in the grass what will happen is that you will become a MUCH better and skilled rider.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Limace
journeyman
Reged: 03/09/05
Posts: 54
Loc: Oregon
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This thread is very helpful. Thanks for all the thoughts so far.
I've saved up a few small points over the past few months while watching the site and letting sabbatical gently reduce my manic tendencies. In no particular order:
Pintsized, I was also looking for some lowers which would be waterproof and not too hot for the NW. Thought the AmFib front tights were both too uncomfortable and too hot for the rainy but high 40-50 days last January.
I bought a pair of Campagnolo bib knickers on eBay a month or so ago based on their advertizing that the Textran fabric is both windproof and waterproof. I really like them. Got caught in a downpour wearing them, lots of gusty winds. The windproofing kept the temperature perfect without overheating. The waterproof worked exactly as advertised and I didn't feel clammy at all. Now I'm looking at the Textran winter jackets.
I also use Race Blades for fenders. Back only since the front won't fit well on my Tetra. Quick on and off making it easy to switch them between bikes.
Why no quick on fenders for group rides? Didn't know they could be a problem.
Definitely ride slower in the rain. Paranoid and  . My problem here is layered wet leaves, not grass clipping. I like the additional time to look over what is coming up. The defensive driving approach to pain aversion. I also seem to be able to recover on some slide outs which would be automatic pavement if going faster.
Cross referencing the older bike theft thread. I have severl friends who use an urban camoflage approach. They paint a new bike in bright, trashy colors figuring it will look too funky for anyone to think it is valuable.
I took a modified approach with my Tetra. Clear coat over nude with the dark decals. People who are really familiar with Calfee's recognize the frame and we talk, but otherwise doesn't draw a lot of attention.
Cross refernce to yet another ongoing thread. I've got both a Fizik Aliante and Arione. The Aliante is my long ride saddle, but I agree that it seems to have a mileage limit. About 50 miles. Combined with some of my 50 mile chamois, using the wrong combination can make for an uncomfortable ride after about 25 miles. Guess learning fractions all those years ago still has practical application.
Thanks for your time.
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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Quote:
Limace wrote:
I also use Race Blades for fenders. Back only since the front won't fit well on my Tetra. Quick on and off making it easy to switch them between bikes.
Why no quick on fenders for group rides? Didn't know they could be a problem.
We don't call Race Blades fenders here in Oregon...we call them "accelerators". They only seem to accelerate the water stream right into the rider's face who is behind you.  That's probably not true but it sure seems like it. At best the only thing they are good for is kind of keeping your own butt dry.
Anywho...that's why they are a no-no on group rides.
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Limace
journeyman
Reged: 03/09/05
Posts: 54
Loc: Oregon
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You know, it would probably be interesting to do a geographic survey of where site participants come from. (If you are anywhere near downtown Portland at this moment, Vanx8r, I have my eye on you. Up on Pill Hill counts too.)
I hadn't run into any accelerater grumbling from my friends, but it is true I usually ride alone in the rain. (Imagine a lonely figure dripping Oregon liquid sunshine.)
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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Not far....Eugene.
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Pintsized
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/05
Posts: 90
Loc: Corvallis OR
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Skuke, thank you for the riding in the grass suggestion. In fact, there is a nice grassy area inside the running track over at the university that might do real well. But I sort of wonder what riding on grass will show me about riding on asphalt. Are you sure there is a crossover?
The shifting reference : I could blame my poor sick brain, but I won't. I was thinking of the way a person shifts to an easier gear AS they are slowing down -- habit to me, but I guess we do it so we are there when it's time to accelerate again -- and somehow turned it in the cause of the slowing down, as if it were compression braking like you do in a car! Oops. Causal fallacy, as we say in my line of work.
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Pintsized wrote:
Skuke, thank you for the riding in the grass suggestion. In fact, there is a nice grassy area inside the running track over at the university that might do real well. But I sort of wonder what riding on grass will show me about riding on asphalt. Are you sure there is a crossover?
There is no crossover in the sense that the coefficient of friction between grass and asphalt is not even close. But the skills you learn will cross over. Let me elaborate.
A looooong time ago, I was in a bike handling/race clinic. We did lots of exercises on a wet, soft grassy field (for our safety.) We touched our front wheels to the back wheel of the person in front of us. We "slammed" our wheels. We had the front rider "hook" (flick) us at random times. We locked up the front wheels with and without weight shifting to the rear. We leaned (low speed) until we slid out. We pedaled through extreme lean trying to lift the rear wheels. That was hard though b/c we usually slid out on the wet grass first. Slow speed, super tight radius figure eights. Then faster and faster. Slaloms, etc etc. We learned how to react to those situations. We fell alot and nobody got seriously hurt.
Fast forward a bit in time. I started doing the exercises I described to you earlier. The difference is that I was on packed dirt riding a mtn bike with knobbies (pretty good traction). I had no extra protective gear. I was doing a lot of mtn bike racing and was just doing drills. I fell a bunch and got scraped up a bunch. Stupid me never really figured out to get the right protective gear. Anyhow, I learned a lot about how well my bike braked, leaned etc.
So, while I've never actually done what I suggested in the earlier post, I did combine the best of both ideas in this post and hopefully provided a safer, less painful, way to become a better bike handler. I don't believe you can truly be a good bike handler until you find out what the limits are. The grass won't tell you what the actual limits are (unless all you do is ride on grass), but at least you'll have a clue.
The exercises hard to do in the sense that you KNOW you will be falling at some time (many times?) during the day. It's hard to overcome that fear and deliberately put yourself in danger. It may not help you, but I put that fear aside by remembering snow ski drills I did where I crashed all day long and was complete wreck that night. The reward was much better technique, kinesthetics, and a logical/mental understanding.
BTW, I went out on a ride today and the mountain roads were somewhat damp from the light rain we had yesterday. I "smoked" my buddies on the downhill cuz they, again, slowed down due to the wet. I was really really REALLY hoping that I wouldn't crash though because I would have hated to write to this forum and eat crow. ...even though it does taste good when marinated and BBQ'd  I also can't afford to get hurt and miss school for any length of time.
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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Pintsized
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/05
Posts: 90
Loc: Corvallis OR
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Further adventures in the search for pants-oids you can wear in the Northwest...Limax, van8xr, check it out.
This morning I rode when it was about 35-40 degrees outside.Colder than usual for around here and foggy, but no rain at all. I wore the plain old unlined PI legwarmers under my knickers, also the unlined PI kind. This worked well. I planned to take off the legwarmers if they got too warm, but they didn't. I suspect that when the weather goes back to normal, they will come off as the day goes on. But they come off easy without public indecency and are easy to stow. This is a little inelegant because the warmers bunch up a bit, but it wasn't uncomfortable and they didn't just fall down, which is what they do under shorts.
The warmers and knickers have a pretty tight weave even thoug they have no lining. The thermafleece tights that PI makes are soft and warm but honestly the weave on the outer layer seems really open. What I used today was really good wind protection, which was what I wanted. So...bottom of the line product worked great!
I'm going to try this on the next rainy day...which is no doubt in our future! I get really cold in the unlined PI stuff once it gets wet--- the drawback so far-- when it's 45-55, which is more normal.. Maybe having the leg warmers on underneath will help? I'll let you know..
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Krash
new member
Reged: 09/04/05
Posts: 17
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Hydroplaning isn't necessary for a bike tire lose its grip in a wet corner. Unless your normal riding style is well under cornering limits, you'd best slow down in the wet.
You get no warning when your tires let go and going down isn't any fun. The helmet I split in half in a wet crit would make a good photo for this thread.
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vaxn8r
contributor
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 222
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Exactly, been there and done that. Wet roads present less friction. On top of that there are hidden dangers like oil spills, leafs, manhole covers, ice (when cold), moss (at least in Oregon) even painted lines...none of which are a problem when cornering in dry conditions.
My experience was about 20 mph, 90 deg right turn and before I knew it I had hit the deck and slid about another 20 feet down the road. Wet roads are slipperier than dry ones.
If you don't mind a little road rash, helmet/clothing replacement, scratched up components or frame, then by all means lay into those wet corners with full confidence.
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Krash wrote:
Hydroplaning isn't necessary for a bike tire lose its grip in a wet corner. Unless your normal riding style is well under cornering limits, you'd best slow down in the wet.
You get no warning when your tires let go and going down isn't any fun. The helmet I split in half in a wet crit would make a good photo for this thread.
Just curious Krash, when you crashed in the wet crit, WHY did you crash? What happened?
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Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
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skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
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