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Ned
new member


Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 4
Parlee Z3 Compact Review
#7251 - 01/03/06 04:12 PM (192.250.34.162)

This may serve as an add-on to RoyGB's 3 way review of the Z3, Moots, and Waterford bikes. In fact, the Z3 I've been riding the week of 26th December 2005 is the same one that Roy reviewed previously. I am going to compare this to an '05 Trek Madone 5.9 110 OCLV, the one with the shark fin seat tube. I am interested in purchasing a Parlee Z3, hence the test ride and subsequent comparison notes. My Trek is set up as follows: 56 (medium) frameset C-T, essentially a 55 cm C-C seat tube length, 56.1 TT, 41.0 chainstay length, HT angle - 73.8, ST angle - 73.5 (very nearly parallel angles), and wheelbase of 98.4 cm. The Parlee Z3 I rode is a M/L, as noted on the Parlee website a 55 seat tube length with an effective 56 top tube, HT angle - 73.5, ST angle 73.0, 41.0 chainstay length, and wheelbase 98.3 cm. The Trek is set up with Dura-Ace 9-Speed, Campagnolo Neutron Wheels (Shimano compatible) with Vittoria clinchers, FSA K-Force bar, Deda Einstein stem (120mm), Look CX-6 carbon pedals, and my trusty Flite Saddle. I've ridden and raced Trek carbon frames for 5 years and have completely dialed in my fit after a lot of tweaking and subtle changes.

Roy at Grace Bicycles in Holliston, my hometown, set up the Parlee so that it was nearly identical to the Trek in terms of saddle setback, reach to the bars, position of shifters, and stem height. The components are Ultegra 10-speed, with Ritchey adjustable stem, Ritchey bars (not the WCS or Pro - seemed to be generic bar), Ritchey seatpost and Flite Saddle (ahhh). The wheels are Mavic Ksyrium Elite, shod with Michelin rubber. The bike feels light, but in its current configuration my Trek is definitely lighter - there's nothing really super high end on the Parlee from a component standpoint. This bike could be built into a 16 pounder with ease, but I'm not sure how light you want to go given the ride characteristics which I'll note in a moment. A little heft on this bike might give it some added stability and predictablity and I'm willing to bet that right now it's around 17.5 pounds, or close to it.

Day 1 - I rode for 2 hours on the Parlee. First impression is that this bike is an unbelievable climbing machine. I have a loop that has some nasty sharp out-of-the-saddle climbs and every single pedal stroke is translated into energy. Some of this may be attributed to the newer Ultegra crankset with outboard bearings but I'm willing to bet my DA crank doesn't flex that much. I think the bottom bracket is incredibly stiff laterally. The Mavic wheels are stiff as well, but I swapped them out on Day 2 for my Neutrons so as to see if what I felt was more related to frame build rather than riding with wheels whose characteristics I'm not used to. I felt on rough roads a bit more shock and bounce than what I'm used to with the Trek. The Parlee is definitely more twitchy and quick handling than the Trek. I hammered the bike into a number of sharp corners and it cornered on rails; no need to correct mid-turn or muscle the bike through as I do with the Trek. The Trek feels longer, certainly more neutral, and not as quick or edgy. I could also get the back end of the Parlee to bounce a bit while out of the saddle on rough roads. The feeling of a shorter wheelbase and quicker handling is odd, given that the wheelbase is nearly identical, BB height is nearly identical, chainstay length nearly identical - the principal difference arises in geometry and that difference is seat tube angle (see above). The seat stays are also quite a bit different, with the Parlee using a pretty beefy monostay design which may contribute to the stiffness of the rear end. I attribute most of this to the carbon layup and how the lugs are made, and reviews of the respective websites illustrate the differences in carbon build philosophies.

Days 2 and 3 - my concern was that I didn't want a fatiguing ride and one on which I could not relax. I swapped out the Kysrium wheels for my Campy wheels and noticed that the ride was more forgiving and a bit more stable. The Parlee still climbed beautifully and descended in a stable and predicable manner. This makes me rethink my decision to purchase a set of the Kysrium SSC SL wheels (sorry Roy!). I don't know yet what I'll put on the Parlee (more on that in a moment) but it will likely be a set of more traditional hoops. Overall, this frame reminds me of some of my favorite steel framesets (Serotta CSI, Merckx Corsa Extra Team Kelme, LeCroco 753 - handmade in Montreal) with its ride manner and feel. It rides very differently from the Trek.

So, overall, a very sweet ride. As with any frame, your choice of wheels and tires will make a difference in ride quality / feel and I certainly feel this is the case with the Parlee. This is bike I would not hesitate to race hard and I bet it would find the start of a criterium (think Ninigret, RI) with a lot of turns and acceleration points to its liking. Here a set of super stiff wheels like the Kyriums would be just the ticket, but perhaps not for centuries or roads that are really rough.

Roy mentioned that he was considering selling the demo bike I've been riding. It's sold (frameset, that is)!! I love it. Do I need 2 carbon bikes? Probably not, but I can't pass it up, and it is an absolutely beautiful frame to look at as well. Yes, I've been seduced by the Parlee Z3 compact.

Sorry for the long review, but maybe someone will find it useful. By the way, Roy Cervantes at Grace Bicycles in Holliston rocks and I cannot believe how lucky I am to have a high-end shop 5 minutes away from my house!!

-Ned Siegel
Holliston, MA


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1centaur
journeyman
*****

Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 126
Loc: Massachusetts
Re: Parlee Z3 Compact Review new [Re: Ned]
#7255 - 01/04/06 12:35 AM (24.34.152.94)

Good thoughts there Ned. I totally agree that a Parlee feels stiff (but not uncomfortable) and efficient and is a great climber. I also heartily endorse the idea of different wheels. I tested a Six13 with K's and bought the frame with Topolinos - one of my best choices ever. My Crumpton was too cushioned with the Topos but does great with Tempest IIs. I have come to believe that mixing stiff with flexible (frame vs. wheels and vice versa) is a good way to go. I have handbuilt R1.1 rims on Hugi 240s hubs with CX-Ray spokes on my Parlee and am very pleased with the combination. I also own Neutrons and I'd say the handbuilts are as comfortable but are lighter and have a better hub.

--------------------
"You never make a gift of Ventoux"
Eddie Merckx to Lance Armstrong


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Ned
new member


Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 4
Re: Parlee Z3 Compact Review new [Re: 1centaur]
#7256 - 01/04/06 02:10 AM (24.63.87.90)

Thanks, 1centaur. I appreciate your feedback, particularly your comment on wheels. I'm going to check out your R1.1 wheelset with the Hugi hubs and CX-Ray spokes. I've long been a fan of those hubs and Roy builds a killer wheel. He recently built a rear wheel for my cross bike. I've ridden it hard and it remains perfectly true - no tweaking necessary. I am really excited about this frame and getting it built up this spring.

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TiLee
new member


Reged: 10/19/04
Posts: 11
Re: Parlee Z3 Compact Review new [Re: Ned]
#7288 - 01/07/06 10:30 PM (209.247.222.93)

Ned,
Great review. I paired up my Parlee Z1x with Topolino's and I'm quite happy with the combination. I just picked up an extra pair of K-sl's. I'll try them on the Parlee in the spring. You're gonna love the Parlee. It just keeps getting better.


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Ned
new member


Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 4
Re: Parlee Z3 Compact Review new [Re: TiLee]
#7296 - 01/09/06 06:37 PM (192.250.34.162)

TiLee - Thanks for your kind words. You are right, I admit it! I rode the demo Z3c again this past weekend (4th ride on this frame) and it keeps growing on me. It goes back to my LBS this week so it can be stripped of the existing components and then off to Parlee to have the clear coat refinished. I can't wait to build it up with the parts I've spec'd. I also picked up the most recent issue of Procycling Magazine and there is a Parlee Z3c prominently featured in the review of several climbs in France, include Mont Ventoux. I'll have to check out the Topolinos - I keep hearing good things about them but I've never seen them in person. I think the first wheelset I'll use on this bike will be built by Roy Cervantes at Grace Bicycles in Holliston, MA, and comprised of DT R1.1 rims (front 28H radially laced), Hugi 240s hubs, and Sapim CX-Ray spokes. Next would be a set of aero wheels for racing, so as I noted in the review I would consider the Mavic Kysrium or maybe American Classic Sprint 350. Happy riding!

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Lon
sage
*****

Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
Topolino's new [Re: Ned]
#7301 - 01/10/06 04:04 PM (24.51.181.14)

Has Spinergy gotten their hubs right yet? I read a number of posts from people who loved the wheels but the the rear hubs would loosen up on a regular basis. Knowing what pedestrian hubs my Rev X Spinergy's had I've always been hestitant to trust the same guy on his choice of bearings. My lightweight Spinergy Rev X had just off the shelf Taiwan sealed bearings that you order from Quality for hardly anything. I mean the exact same ones right down to the numbers on them.

Because of that I went with the new Rolf Elan Aero. I was very impressed that he uses White Industries Hubs and Sapim Spokes plus hurts his margin by building in the US and not Mexico. I try to support companies that do this. (It is getting harder in all areas.)

That said I've never heard anyone who owned them not to really like them even with the hub that loosens. The last time I asked I think they were on their second hub supplier. Anyone know where they stand?

Thanks.


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