Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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I am buying a very clean used 2001 Calfee Luna. The bike is selling for $1,850 and is equipped with very good componets. However, a friend is pushing me to buy a new Trek for a few hundred more. I have ridden both a Calfee Luna and Trek Madone 5.9 for about 2 minutes though a parking lot almost two weeks apart; so it is a little difficult to compare them.
Would I really notice much of a difference in the overall feel between these two bikes? What I ideally want from a bike is something that is fun to ride, and comfortable on long rides.
Thank you,
Bruce
Here is what is on the used Luna:
Campy Record shifters, cranks and hubs
Chorus front and rear derailleurs, and brakes.
Chris King head set
Kestral EMS Pro carbon bars
Ritchy WCS 110mm stem
Thomson Elite seat post
Fizik Arione seat
Mavic CXP 33 rims
Edited by Darby (08/09/06 06:10 AM)
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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Update on my question.
If I were to consider buying a new Trek rather than a used Calfee Luna Pro, the Trek would most likely be a OCLV 5200 and not a Madone. I just wanted to clarify that.
Bruce Darby
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bfd
journeyman
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 77
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A couple of things to consider:
1. warranty - with a *new* trek, you'll get lifetime warranty. With a used Calfee, you can buy a Second Life warranty, but I think you have to send the frameset to Calfee for inspection. Go here for more:
http://www.calfeedesign.com/warranty.htm#second
Since these are carbon bikes, I think warranty is very important. Calfee and Trek provide excellent service, so you really can't go wrong with either. If you choose the Calfee and forgo the Second Life warranty, then you're essentially on your own.
2. fit. One thing to consider is whether you like Campy Ergo levers or Shimano STI. Usually, Treks are sold with shimano components. You see them, but its rare to see a Trek with Campy parts.
More importantly, do you have any fitting issues with either bikes? A 2 minute ride around the parking lot is probably not sufficient. See if you can arrange a nice long 30-40 mile ride on both that has some hills. Make sure you use the same wheels/tires/tire pressure and saddle on both bikes. For more see here:
http://www.chainreaction.com/roadbiketestrides.htm
3. Finally, which one turns you on?
Good Luck!
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
bfd wrote:
A couple of things to consider:
1. warranty - with a *new* trek, you'll get lifetime warranty. With a used Calfee, you can buy a Second Life warranty, but I think you have to send the frameset to Calfee for inspection. Go here for more:
http://www.calfeedesign.com/warranty.htm#second
Since these are carbon bikes, I think warranty is very important. Calfee and Trek provide excellent service, so you really can't go wrong with either. If you choose the Calfee and forgo the Second Life warranty, then you're essentially on your own.
2. fit. One thing to consider is whether you like Campy Ergo levers or Shimano STI. Usually, Treks are sold with shimano components. You see them, but its rare to see a Trek with Campy parts.
More importantly, do you have any fitting issues with either bikes? A 2 minute ride around the parking lot is probably not sufficient. See if you can arrange a nice long 30-40 mile ride on both that has some hills. Make sure you use the same wheels/tires/tire pressure and saddle on both bikes. For more see here:
http://www.chainreaction.com/roadbiketestrides.htm
3. Finally, which one turns you on?
Good Luck!
Thanks for the response.
The warranty is something to consider. There are only 5 years left on the Calfee Luna warranty. I was wondering if Calfee has many or any warranty repair issues. Most of the damage I hear about with Carbon Fiber bikes is from someone driving under a low bridge with bikes strapped on a roof rack; or crashing into a parked car. I don't think this type of damage will be covered under anyone's warranty.
The Trek has an advantage in that it gets free tune ups for life.
As for as which bike turns me on, the Calfee hands down. Maybe I am wrong but I see a Calfee as a Porsche and 5200 Trek as more of a Buick. I might be wrong, it is just my perception.
Bruce Darby
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 187
Loc: Plano, TX
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Quote:
Darby wrote:
I see a Calfee as a Porsche and 5200 Trek as more of a Buick.
Well put! (though that's a pretty nice Buick) I know a few folks in here have both bikes so they might be able to help you with which bike they like most. Personally, I only ride Calfee so that's where my vote goes. I love the quality, the ability to call Craig if I have a question or need advice, the uniqueness (there are a ton of Treks out there but few Calfees) and the way my Calfee responds.
Ultimately, like most things, it boils down to personal preference. Both are great bikes so whichever you go with I'm sure you will be happy. 
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
Quote:
Darby wrote:
I see a Calfee as a Porsche and 5200 Trek as more of a Buick.
Well put! (though that's a pretty nice Buick) I know a few folks in here have both bikes so they might be able to help you with which bike they like most. Personally, I only ride Calfee so that's where my vote goes. I love the quality, the ability to call Craig if I have a question or need advice, the uniqueness (there are a ton of Treks out there but few Calfees) and the way my Calfee responds.
Ultimately, like most things, it boils down to personal preference. Both are great bikes so whichever you go with I'm sure you will be happy.
I would very much appreciate talking with or exchanging emails with anyone that has first hand experience with both Calfee and Trek. It will certainly help me.
I called Calfee and they told me that they do not have many warranty repairs. Mostly, it sounds like the warranty is used to make modifications to the frame. Most frame damage is caused from riders crashing.
Also, I have heard that Trek is known to dispute warranty claims and give a reduction in the purchase price of a new frame.
One appealing thing to me about Calfee is that it is a small privately run company where the management is passionate about the product they make. Calfee reminds me a little of Harley-Davidson. Harley started making a much better product after the corporate suits from AMF sold the company back to family that started the company.
Bruce
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cccyclist
journeyman
Reged: 09/27/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Central California
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I ride with a group that more than half of them ride Madones. It is very common to have to return them for warranty work if you ride often (4000+) miles a year. Also they will almost always break in a wreck. If they don't make that model or color any longer, they will give you a replacement that wont be the same bike. You will still have to pay to strip the frame and rebuild with the new one. They will deny the claim if you crash.
Calfees are designed to be both more crash resistant and repairable in almost all cases.
Fit is everything though. If the Luna doesn't fit you don't get it.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
cccyclist wrote:
I ride with a group that more than half of them ride Madones. It is very common to have to return them for warranty work if you ride often (4000+) miles a year. Also they will almost always break in a wreck. If they don't make that model or color any longer, they will give you a replacement that wont be the same bike. You will still have to pay to strip the frame and rebuild with the new one. They will deny the claim if you crash.
Calfees are designed to be both more crash resistant and repairable in almost all cases.
Fit is everything though. If the Luna doesn't fit you don't get it.
Thanks for the feedback. Have you heard of any cases where a Calfee will break just from heavy use?
As for the fit, I think the bike fits me. I did have some difficulty determining the top bar measurement. I am 6' 1/2" with a 34" inseam and the bike is a 60cm. I am the same height and inseam measurement as the guy I am buying the bike from. I believe that I can make some minor adjustments by changing the length of the stem. Am I correct?
Bruce Darby
Edited by Darby (08/09/06 08:30 PM)
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Quote:
Darby wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. Have you heard of any cases where a Calfee will break just from heavy use?
As for the fit, I think the bike fits me. I did have some difficulty determining the top bar measurement. I am 6' 1/2" with a 34" inseam and the bike is a 60cm. I am the same height and inseam measurement as the guy I am buying the bike from. I believe that I can make some minor adjustments by changing the length of the stem. Am I correct?
Bruce Darby
At 200 lbs (+/-) I've ridden Calfees for years with no structural problems. In all those years, I've not heard of one breaking from heavy use.
Consider: Calfee has more years building straight carbon fiber bikes than Trek, and aside from their Bamboo bike, Calfee builds *nothing* but carbon fiber bikes.
If you are looking at a 60CM Calfee, the top tube will measure 58.3CM (Calfee geometry: http://www.calfeedesign.com/pro.htm)
--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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If you are looking at a 60CM Calfee, the top tube will measure 58.3CM (Calfee geometry: http://www.calfeedesign.com/pro.htm)
Hi Dave,
I wasn't sure if a 58.3CM top tube fits me or not. My old bike has a 60.96CM top tube and I rode it for years. I always thought the bike didn't fit me correctly and that might have been the reason I hated ridding it.
Bruce Darby
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Quote:
Darby wrote:
If you are looking at a 60CM Calfee, the top tube will measure 58.3CM (Calfee geometry: http://www.calfeedesign.com/pro.htm)
Hi Dave,
I wasn't sure if a 58.3CM top tube fits me or not. My old bike has a 60.96CM top tube and I rode it for years. I always thought the bike didn't fit me correctly and that might have been the reason I hated ridding it.
Bruce Darby
I'm also 6' and usually ride a 58~59CM top tube with 110 or 120 stems. At your height, unless you have an unusually long torso or arms, I would suspect that the 60CM Calfee could be configured to fit you better.
--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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Bruce Darby
I'm also 6' and usually ride a 58~59CM top tube with 110 or 120 stems. At your height, unless you have an unusually long torso or arms, I would suspect that the 60CM Calfee could be configured to fit you better.
Thanks for responding,
There was a typo in my height. I am actually 6'2 1/2" so 60CM should be my size, I believe.
Bruce Darby
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cccyclist
journeyman
Reged: 09/27/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Central California
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I am your exact ht and inseam. I ride a Tetra Pro 60 cm. I have not heard of any Calfees breaking from hard riding either, but I am relatively new to the Calfee family. I did a lot of research before I purchased the frame last year. My main goal was to get a carbon bike that would last as long as I wished to keep it. Calfee was head and shoulders above others in this area. As it turns out the ride is outstanding also. My other bikes are a Waterford 2200 and a Merlin Road. I though nothing could match the ride of the Waterford, which is known for one of the best rides around. The Calfee is at a whole other level.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
cccyclist wrote:
I am your exact ht and inseam. I ride a Tetra Pro 60 cm. I have not heard of any Calfees breaking from hard riding either, but I am relatively new to the Calfee family. I did a lot of research before I purchased the frame last year. My main goal was to get a carbon bike that would last as long as I wished to keep it. Calfee was head and shoulders above others in this area. As it turns out the ride is outstanding also. My other bikes are a Waterford 2200 and a Merlin Road. I though nothing could match the ride of the Waterford, which is known for one of the best rides around. The Calfee is at a whole other level.
Wow, thanks for the post. You have been a huge help in my decision making process. Now I am fairly confident that a 60CM is my size because others with my heighth and inseam measurment also ride a 60CM.
I too am looking for a bike that will hold up. I orginally thought I wanted a Litespeed Tuscany because I heard that it was comfortable and durable. I rode one and it was a nice bike, but after I rode a Calfee everything changed. I knew I wanted a Carbon bike and most likely a Calfee.
I will pass on the new Trek and buy the used Calfee Luna pro.
Thank you again,
Bruce Darby
Edited by Darby (08/10/06 04:30 AM)
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Insightdriver
captain
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
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As far as carbon fiber frames are concerned, Calfee frames are the in the top tier of manufacturing quality and engineering refinement. From my subscriptions to composite manufacturing and technology I am aware that composite frames like the Calfee do not have fatigue issues like metals do. Aircraft manufacturers love that and that is why you see more and more parts of airframes made from composite materials using carbon fiber.
It is interesting, in perusing many web boards related to cycling that much has been posted about carbon fiber being fragile. The vast amount of posting is made by uninformed and ignorant folks who have a clear bias toward traditional ways of doing things.
As far as ride qualities are concerned, first off, being properly fit on the bike is paramount. After that, things like bottom bracket height, trail, weight distribution, wheel stiffness and weight all influence how a bike handles and rides. I think Craig Calfee understands that as well as all the other expert frame makers so his bikes have that ride quality. It's not that they are made from composites, it's that they have the geometry that leads to a good ride quality. In fact, a custom Calfee can be made to have any ride quality a rider would want.
Love a Calfee for the durability of carbon fiber and the ride qualities designed into the geometry of the frame. A taken care of carbon fiber bike should last a lifetime. This is my opinion. Others may differ and may be right. I could be wrong.
I am pleased you made a good choice in getting the Calfee.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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I am pleased you made a good choice in getting the Calfee.
Thanks for the feedback; and thanks to all that responeded. I wrote the check today for the Calfee. It is being shipped and should be in my hands in about five days. I am sure that I will love it.
Bruce Darby
Edited by Darby (08/11/06 04:13 AM)
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BikerDoug
friend
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 88
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Welcome to the dark side! Fit and quality aside, another reason I like my Calfee is you just don't see many of them around. Treks are great bikes (I hear), but it seems half the riders around here are riding them.
Some may think it silly to consider that when getting a new bike, but if I'm going to spend a few grand, I'd like my emotional needs met as well as my physical!  yuk yuk.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
BikerDoug wrote:
Welcome to the dark side! Fit and quality aside, another reason I like my Calfee is you just don't see many of them around. Treks are great bikes (I hear), but it seems half the riders around here are riding them.
Some may think it silly to consider that when getting a new bike, but if I'm going to spend a few grand, I'd like my emotional needs met as well as my physical! yuk yuk.
I agree Treks are everywhere. When I decided to upgrade my bike I thought a used bike would be OK as long is it was used very little and not abused. So, I started looking on Ebay I found Treks and litespeed's were really abundant. There are very few Calfee's on Ebay and even fewer ones that fit me. Maybe Calfee owners rarely sell their bikes.
Another reason I wanted a Calfee is that it is one of the few company or maybe the only one that will allow a warranty to be transfered to a second owner. Well, I only have five years left on the warranty on the bike I purchased. However, I haven't heard of anyone that has had a problem with the bike breaking, other than a crash.
At any rate, I am very happy that I bought a Calfee. The bike looks great and is is equipped with very high-end componets. There might be a few small scratches in the frame, but I could have them touched up by Calfee if they bother me.
Thanks
Bruce Darby
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 187
Loc: Plano, TX
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Congrats! Be sure to let us know how you like it once you get it in and post some pics for all to see the new baby!
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
Congrats! Be sure to let us know how you like it once you get it in and post some pics for all to see the new baby!
I am sure that I will love my new used Calfee. I posted one photo that was sent to me by the seller. So far it has not been approved. I will post more photos after the bike arrives on Monday.
Bruce Darby
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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Bruce,
Hope you like your new Calfee.
I bought a used Trek 5900 on Ebay this spring for a backup / rain bike and ended up riding it all summer since the Calfee was out of commission for 3 different reasons.
I just got the Calfee back on the road this week, and I can tell you with out a doubt that the Calfee is a better bike than the Trek. Not that the Trek is a bad bike. In fact, it is a very nice bike, the the Calfee is better.
Full report coming soon once I do some more riding on the Calfee.
Bruce
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Bruce wrote:
Bruce,
Hope you like your new Calfee.
I bought a used Trek 5900 on Ebay this spring for a backup / rain bike and ended up riding it all summer since the Calfee was out of commission for 3 different reasons.
I just got the Calfee back on the road this week, and I can tell you with out a doubt that the Calfee is a better bike than the Trek. Not that the Trek is a bad bike. In fact, it is a very nice bike, the the Calfee is better.
Full report coming soon once I do some more riding on the Calfee.
Bruce
Thanks Bruce. I do appreciate the feedback. I haven't ridden enough Treks to know the ride characteristics, but I do know that I love the way my Calfee rides.
You have eliminated any doubt that I made the right decision. I will probably have my Luna Pro for many years; unless Calfee starts selling those unconventional frames, then I will be standing in line to buy one and my Luna will be on Ebay.
Bruce
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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I finally got my bike out of the shop after 2 months and I must say the bike rides absolutely amazing. I can hardly feel the road underneath me. I changed the forks, bars, stem and wheels. I bought Winwood Road Scholar carbon bars and Topolino C19s wheels with Continental 4 Season tires.
The only thing on the bike that I am not entirely happy with is the saddle. The saddle is a Fizik Arione. One of the wrenches at the shop told me that it is one of the most comfortable saddles on the market. To me it is a pain in the butt, and it feels like sitting on concrete. Does the seat take time to conform to my butt or visa versa? Or, should I consider a seat upgrade?
Bruce
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Bruce:
Saddles are very personal; one man's couch is another man's axe.
One thing I've found is that the level of the saddle can make a big difference. By tilting the nose slightly more up, or down, can make or break it.
Another; use chamois creme and liberally. That can help a bunch.
One thing that you might ask of your LBS: is he willing to swap saddles until you find one that is satisfactory? Some LBS do that, some don't.
Me? I use Brooks saddles exclusively. Not for everyone but they sure suit my butt!
--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Dave_Thompson wrote:
Me? I use Brooks saddles exclusively.
I have wondered about Brooks for a while. I actually like the way they look. They are a tad bit heavy. Do you have a B17? Has the weight been an issue? How is the break in time?
Thanks,
Bruce
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Quote:
Darby wrote:
Quote:
Dave_Thompson wrote:
Me? I use Brooks saddles exclusively.
I have wondered about Brooks for a while. I actually like the way they look. They are a tad bit heavy. Do you have a B17? Has the weight been an issue? How is the break in time?
Thanks,
Bruce
Because of the type of riding I do, comfort is absolutely everything. Weight takes a far back seat. I have a B-17 on my Ottrott and a Swift on my Spectrum. I had a B-17 on the Luna Pro.
Break-in of a Brooks is really an issue of getting the adjutments to exactly where they need to be. When I install a Brooks on a bike I know from past experience where it needs to be and for me no 'break-in' is required, I have it adjusted perfectly. It's good from the get-go.
If you are interested in a B-17, a good used one can be had for $30~$40 or so. Buy one, play with it and see if it suits you. If not, no great loss. If it does work for you, then you can buy a new one in the color you want and if weight weighs on you buy a titanium model.
Depending on your riding style, saddle-to-bar drop and your size, other Brooks saddles may be more appropriate to you.
Wallingford Bikes http://www.wallbike.com/ is a *huge* wealth of Brooks information and they have a very generous return policy for Brooks. You might give Bill a call.
--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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I have a B-17 on my Ottrott and a Swift on my Spectrum. I had a B-17 on the Luna Pro.
Dave, I have spent some time on Brook's website trying to figure out which saddle would be right for me. Brooks has a lot of saddles to choice from. Some are not too much heavier than my Fizik Arione. However, I am with you on comfort. I want to be comfortable on my bike if I am going to ride it for hours on end. A used B-17 sounds like a great deal at $30-$40 or so.
Do you notice much difference in comfort between the B-17 and the Swift? The Swift weighs much less than the B-17. Oh, by the way, Brooks makes three different versions of the B-17, which one do you have?
Bruce Darby
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Quote:
Darby wrote:
I have a B-17 on my Ottrott and a Swift on my Spectrum. I had a B-17 on the Luna Pro.
Dave, I have spent some time on Brook's website trying to figure out which saddle would be right for me. Brooks has a lot of saddles to choice from. Some are not too much heavier than my Fizik Arione. However, I am with you on comfort. I want to be comfortable on my bike if I am going to ride it for hours on end. A used B-17 sounds like a great deal at $30-$40 or so.
Do you notice much difference in comfort between the B-17 and the Swift? The Swift weighs much less than the B-17. Oh, by the way, Brooks makes three different versions of the B-17, which one do you have?
Bruce Darby
Look at the length and width of the various Brooks. Also note their recommendations for riding 'style', IE: bars even or higher than the saddle, bars slightly below the saddle and aggressive riding style.
The difference between the B-17 and the Swift reflect the difference between the Serotta and the Spectrum, so the saddles are somewhat equally 'comfy' withing the limitations of the bikes. The Serotta is used more often for the longer less aggressive rides while the Spectrum is used for 'racing' style rides, though lord knows I'm not a racer by any stretch of the imagination.
Regarding the B-17 I use, I have the standard length/width B-17, not the narrow model. They also offer a 'Champion Special' which is a little more fancy than the 'Champion Standard' and then there's the titanium B-17 which saves about 1/3 pound but costs about 3 times as much.
Again, if you call or e-mail Bill Laine at Wallingford Bikes, he can give you very good insights and advice regard the choice of saddles.
--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
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Call or e-mail Bill Laine at Wallingford Bikes, he can give you very good insights and advice regard the choice of saddles.
Thanks Dave,
I will give Bill a call tomorrow. I just made a effort to ride the bike. I was planning on at least a one hour ride, but only lasted about 10 minutes with that seat.
Bruce
Edited by Darby (11/05/06 06:55 PM)
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cccyclist
journeyman
Reged: 09/27/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Central California
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I ride Brooks Swallows on all of my bikes. They are about 335 gms since they have Ti frames and rails. I tried everything before these and will never change again. I am a heavy rider (200+ lbs).
Bill and Walinfords is the best. www.wallbike.com He will give you a full refund (minus shipping) on brooks saddles even after 6 months of riding them.
I also have two slightly used Brooks Swifts if anyone is interested. One is Honey with copper colored (Ti) rails and the other is Black with plain Ti rails. Both are fully broken in, but still in great shape. I removed them to change to Brooks Swallows, which are a little stiffer and work better for me. The Swifts weigh about 350 gms.
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Quote:
cccyclist wrote:
I ride Brooks Swallows on all of my bikes. They are about 335 gms since they have Ti frames and rails. I tried everything before these and will never change again. I am a heavy rider (200+ lbs).
Bill and Walinfords is the best. www.wallbike.com He will give you a full refund (minus shipping) on brooks saddles even after 6 months of riding them.
I also have two slightly used Brooks Swifts if anyone is interested. One is Honey with copper colored (Ti) rails and the other is Black with plain Ti rails. Both are fully broken in, but still in great shape. I removed them to change to Brooks Swallows, which are a little stiffer and work better for me. The Swifts weigh about 350 gms.
Price please.
--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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cccyclist
journeyman
Reged: 09/27/05
Posts: 83
Loc: Central California
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