Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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I have been checking out the Topolino C19 wheelset and was wonderinf if anyone here has had experience with Topolinos (any model). It's a rather unique concept and even noticed them pictured on the bamboo Calfees.
Most reviews I have read rave about them but was hoping for an opinion closer to home. 
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ahm
new member
Reged: 02/08/06
Posts: 11
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Hi, I've only been riding a new set of Revelation C19s since January, but would recommend them without hesitation. I've ridden 4 centuries in that time. One century was on particularly horrendous roads that forced the wheels of all of my riding partners to go out of true. My Topos had no such problem. They're extremely plush too, but you'll notice them even more on the hills because they're so light and stiff. Check out the review posted yesterday on pezcyclingnews.com.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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I'm calling for Bruce he has used them about 3 years and last I heard he still loved them.
By the way I hear critics who don't own them but never have I heard a bad word from those who do.
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes, the pez article yesterday was excellent and gave me the nudge in this direction. I have seen them around and always admired them, just hadn't really looked into them in depth.
I have to say from what I have found so far they look pretty slick though!
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BikerDoug
friend
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 88
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I have had the Topo clinchers on my Tetra Pro for two years now....
I have nothing but good things to say about them. First off, they are not a gimick. Granted they looked gimmicky, but there is definately method to their madness.
They are extremely light... listed at 1390g for the pair (mine came in at 1420g). But they are solidly built.
After about 6k miles they have not needed truing (that's even more impressive when you learn that I'm 6'3" and weigh anywhere from 260 to 280 the last few years). One reason for this in the high spoke count. The composite spokes weigh less than metal spoke, so Topo uses more of them. In fact, they invite big riders to try them. Other light-weight wheel makers tell big riders to avoid their wheels.
The give a smooth ride. The first time I took them off my Tetra and put on my "training" wheels (Ultegra, DT, CXP 33 w/32 spoke count), the Tetra's ride became noticeable harsher; still smoother than any other bike I've ridden including my Lemond Tete de Course, but not as smooth as before.
Now you skeptics just be quiet for a sec while I say this.... They accelerate and climb extremely well. (I can hear it now... "How can a FF like you notice a pound or two difference in a wheelset while climbing?" Sorry buddies, but I do. Zinn talks about climbing as constant small accelerations and decelerations. Obvisously a light wheel is going to be eaier to turn.)
Whenever I've had to deal with them company they've been great. The one time I sent them a wheel to work on (I had changed the rear from Campy to Shimano and wasn't sure I had done it right), the wheels were sent out 36 hours after being sent in.
Needless to say I highly recommend them. There's a pic of my Tetra in the photo gallery. Also I noticed Pez Cycling News has a review, but I don't know how much that counts. I don't think I've ever seen a negative review on that site, but the reviewer does share some of his experiences.
HTH
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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Doug,
Great info, I appreciate your time! A couple of questions:
1. Have you ever broken a spoke? I read that the likelyhood of broken spokes is far less with these wheels and that breaking one means you have to replace a side of the spokes. That being said, I wonder how unstable the bike would become if one were to break - considering that one spoke is actually two. I worry now about breaking a spoke during a decent on my DA 7701s so I'm wondering if you have heard or seen any info on handling in the event of a failure.
2. Have you had any issues with the hubs working loose?
I am a fairly big guy as well (5'11" & 230ish) so the strength is a big draw for me.
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BikerDoug
friend
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 88
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1. I've never broken a spoke. Never say never, but I doubt that you can break a spoke in reasonable conditions. I have heard of spokes breaking as a result of crashes and transporting mishaps (see Cyclingnews.com's long term review of these wheels). And check out the pics on pez's page! Wow! I've been hit three times, but none of them come close to that!
I suppose a damaged spoke could give way while at speed. But I can't speak to the stability of the wheel if a spoke did break during a ride. One thing to remember is that compared to other lightweight wheels, the Topos have more spokes, so I think it safe to assume the results wouldn't be catastrophic. I'd recommend you call them. They've also been very helpful with my questions.
But regardless of how the spoke gets broken, it is a big deal to get it fixed. You have to send it to Topo so they can replace half of the hub and spokes. They are a single unit. I don't know the cost of this, but I've heard it isn't cheap.
2. Personally I have not had a problem with the hubs. It is my understanding that some of the early production wheels had this problem, but that Topo fixed it long ago.
If you're looking for lightweight/all-round wheels, these are the best I've found. They're not the most aero wheels, so if that's a big concern you might want to look elsewhere.
If you're not sold already, I recommend reading the two reviews for which I've posted links. Between the two you'll get a good idea of strengths and weaknesses.
I wouldn't hesitate to get me another pair if need.
Too bad you're not in Utah. You could stop by and take them for a spin.  And in case anyone is wondering, no I don't have any connection with Topolino or any of its subsidiries, employees, etc. etc.
HTH
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1centaur
journeyman
Reged: 12/24/03
Posts: 126
Loc: Massachusetts
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I have two sets and generally echo all the accolades here - they seem tough, they damp vibration, they are light, tires change fairly easily on them, etc. I will say that I have heard scraping sounds from the hubs from time to time. Almost like the bearings get out of the groove then get bounced back in. The LBS regreased one set and said it was almost dry in there - that seemed to do the job. They are not as smooth rolling as Hugi 240s (the best I have seen) but you won't be comparing them side by side so not to worry - they roll as smoothly as typical good wheels. Just expect to regrease or perhaps change grease at some point and I recommend them, particularly when mated with overly stiff bikes to counterweigh that aspect of the ride. When mated with damped carbon frames I found them too smoothing and went for stiffer wheels.
Giant racer boys who must have super stiff everything don't like Topos, but for most of us, they are exactly the way the Pex review portrayed them (and one wonders why we don't see more kevlar/carbon spokes).
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"You never make a gift of Ventoux"
Eddie Merckx to Lance Armstrong
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BikerDoug
friend
Reged: 12/29/03
Posts: 88
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Uml... regardless of what wheelset you end up with, be sure to post an initial review.
Thnaks!
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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Thanks everyone. This has been great information, exactly what I was looking for! I had pretty much made up my mind to get them and everyones feedback makes the decision all the easier now.
I will definately post a review once I get them!
Thanks again all!
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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I have been riding the Topo clinchers for 1.5 seasons so far, and I won't use any other wheel.
These things are great.
I have had two problems with them. First the hubs seemed to loosen up after about 6 months. I sent them back and they fixed them, no questions asked. They have been fine since.
One of the ways they reduce weight is by using trick light nipples. While you can use a standard nipple on the wheel, the ones they use are lighter than most. They also don't offer a screwdriver blade to tighten them from the tire side, you must use a special hex wrench. But you can tighten them via a normal spoke wrench.
I have never had to true these wheels, but I have had 2 nipples break. This is the second problem with these wheels, but it is not a problem really. Let me explain:
It is true that the spokes go all the way through the hub to the other side, and if you break a spoke, then you need to replace the whole side. Now here is the good part. Because the nipples are super light, they tend to break instead of the spokes! I think this is a design feature of these wheels. You can replace the nipple with a standard one for the cost of a few grams. No big deal, but I do want to replace my replaced nipples with factory issued ones just to prevent a broken spoke if that particular spoke has a problem.
In general, like everyone else said, these wheels are light, super smooth, and generally great wheels. You can't go wrong on these things.
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Insightdriver
captain
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
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Bruce, reviews like this make it clear the Topolino makes a superior wheel. I now an lusting for a pair myself. 
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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Thanks for the review Bruce. The more I have learned about these wheels the more I too am lusting. I have made up my mind to get them now it's just a matter of when.
Bruce, did you order a set of extra nipples from Topolino or did your LBS have them?
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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Well my Topolino AC29s arrive today (finally). I will post my initial impressions next Monday after I have a few rides on them. Thanks to all for the advice!
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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Well I have to say I am super impressed with the stiffness of the wheelset, the quality of ride and the weight. I wouldnt have thought shaving a few hundred grams off the wheelset would feel so much better, but I could definately tell a difference. It was great!
It was also kinda cool to look at the wheel (albeit briefly) glow brilliant yellow as the sun hit the spokes. A very cool effect that I hadn't expected.
Thanks again to all for the help and advice!
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tall_jason
new member
Reged: 08/15/06
Posts: 13
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I just broke a spoke on my rear Topolino C19 a week ago 150 miles into a double century. I was riding along on a flat stretch of smooth road and <PWANNGGG!> One of the non-drive side spokes sheared off the screw end where it goes into the rim. The spoke folded over and thwapped on my chainstay as the wheel turned until I stopped.
It threw the wheel far enough out of true that it still rubbed the pads with the rear brake wide open. I wobbled another 5 miles on the wheel until I found a support vehicle with a Campy 10 wheel that I could swap out for my D/A 10 wheel.
I've had the wheels since January and put about 4500 miles on them so far. I've been mostly happy with them. The rear hub felt like it was loosening up over time. When I'd be off the bike I could get it to move side-to-side giving it a little shake with my hand. My stock Bontrager wheels never did that.
I'm 6'5" and weigh 185. I don't race in crits and I've never crashed on the Topo wheels. I talked to Topolino and I'm sending the wheel back to them today so that they can replace the whole non-drive side and determine if I need to pay for it (~$100) or if they'll replace it under warranty. Like I said, I'm pretty happy with them so far but the only wheels I have to compare them against are my stock Bontrager Race Lite wheels.
I'm getting Campy Neutrons on my new bike and the Topolinos will likely stay on the old (rain) bike.
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64cm Dragonfly custom geometry
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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I could be wrong but it sounds like you lost a nipple rather than the spoke itself? Either way it still sucks.
Great to hear about your experience though.
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Insightdriver
captain
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
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Based on hindsight have you considered that the looseness you felt was something wrong, yet you continued to ride the wheels anyway until the failure? It is possible, while loose, if it had been investigated, it would have been found that the nipple was loose. Possibly you could have prevented the catastrophic failure with an ounce of prevention.
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tall_jason
new member
Reged: 08/15/06
Posts: 13
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Umlungu:
There were two failure points. I suspect that the spoke ripped out or sheared at the screw that goes into the nipple. When I stopped the bike (in about 5 seconds) I looked down and saw that the spoke was folded over 180 degrees (cracked but still holding together by the fibers) near the hub about an inch outside of the black spoke spoke holders.
I couldn't ride the bike at all with the spoke flopping around so I worked to remove the broken piece of the spoke and opened up the brakes all the way so that I could at least continue on to search for a replacement wheel.
Since I didn't see it happen, I'm assuming that the screw sheared/ripped out and then the spoke folded over the first few wheel revolutions before I could stop the bike.
Insightdriver:
The wheel wasn't all that loose and the ride quality didn't feel different to me so I didn't consider it a problem. A friend with Topolinos said that his rear wheel did the same thing. I asked a mechanic in my LBS and he said that it was "within spec". The looseness was at the hub, not the spokes. I don't know if it had anything to do with the screw on the end of the spoke shearing/pulling out but I doubt it.
Thanks for the 'ounce of prevention' dig. Please don't talk down to me.
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64cm Dragonfly custom geometry
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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This is one reason I've stayed away from the Topolino wheels; the inability to field repair them and the necessity of sending them back to the maker for most repairs/adjustments. At the price of them, it just doesn't seem worth it for the potential problems. They aren't very well supported at the LBS level.
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Insightdriver
captain
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
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I realize that a simple statement can be easily taken the wrong way. I would like to know what Topolino will say about the failure. This is the first time I have heard of a failure of a Topolino wheel. It could be a quality issue with the build. What I don't comprehend is the statement that the looseness of the wheel was, "in spec." If your hub was loose that is puzzling to me.
All other Topolino failures I have heard of where due to crashes. I admit I am not diligent in looking at all failures of the wheels, though.
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Lon
sage
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 595
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
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The one consistent comment I have heard from at least early Topolino owners that was negative is the rear hub adjustment becoming loose. It was my impression that their hub problem was fixed. Other than, the owners of them rave about their performance, weight, responsiveness etc. They tend to be very happy folks.
One reason I bought Rolf Wheels is that the hub was a known product. They use White Industries. I will never forget the first time I changed bearings in my Spinergy Rev-X it was the same EXACT Taiwan sealed bearing that Quality sold for very little money. It made me think twice about hubs on boutique wheels. (The Topolino people were the original Spinergy folks.) Topolino now has an extensive explantion of their hubs and all their features that I don't remember from the original web site. It would tend to think they have been improved.
Maybe you can get a hub upgrade if they have changed when they are fixing your spokes? Just an idea and it can't hurt to ask.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
1centaur wrote:
I will say that I have heard scraping sounds from the hubs from time to time. Almost like the bearings get out of the groove then get bounced back in.
Could I use my Campy Record hubs with them?
Also, Topolino makes other wheel sets. I believe they make a couple of wheels that are more aero but weigh more. Did you look at any of their other wheels?
Bruce
Edited by Darby (08/29/06 01:09 AM)
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
tall_jason wrote:
I'm getting Campy Neutrons on my new bike and the Topolinos will likely stay on the old (rain) bike.
I am considering the Topolino's for their ability to smooth out the road. I have heard that they will ride much smoother than my Mavic CXP 33s.
However, I am a little concerned with the realibility problems problem that I have heard.
Why did you choose the Neutrons over the Topolinos?
Thanks,
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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I have been riding on my new topos for a few weeks now and just finished my first century since aquiring them. I am consistantly impressed by their quickness and ride quality. We have alot of chip and seal roads out here in Texas that used to shake my teeth out on my DA 7701s. The new topos make those roads SO much better.
The topos get the Umlungu seal of approval.
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tall_jason
new member
Reged: 08/15/06
Posts: 13
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Why the Neutrons?
I'd heard good things about the Eurus and Neutron wheels and wanted to give them a try. They're not silly-lightweight like the Topolinos so I hope they're a little more durable. My LBS recommended the Neutron over the Eurus for me (6'5" 190#) with it's 22/24 spoke count to Eurus' 16/22 and a little heavier and hopefully more durable. Neutrons/Eurus' didn't have such a mixed love/hate following like Ksyrium wheels do.
I considered Fulcrum wheels as well. After the minor issues with the Topolinos and the broken spoke I didn't want to depend on them not breaking again on the new bike. The rest of the components are Campy as well so that helped the decision a tiny bit.
On top of that I've had the new bike for 2 weeks now and I'm still waiting for the Topolino wheel to come back from repairs. If I'd stuck with them for the new bike, I'd still be waiting to ride it instead of 450 miles into enjoying it.
FWIW, I don't think the Topolinos (or any wheel really) will smooth the road out as much as your tires will. I'm trying to find a good balance between slightly lower pressure in my tires and preventing snake bite flats from under-inflation. I used to run 100psi, but now I'm playing with 110. I read an article on roadbikerider.com that made a case for riding with 80 - 90 psi, but I suspect that I'd have a lot of flats if I went that low at my size
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64cm Dragonfly custom geometry
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Tires, and tire pressures, can/will make a bigger difference in the ride quality than merely a wheel choice. Using 700X25 tires and, depending on your weight, about 95~100 psi makes for a very nice ride with little chance of pinch flats.
My objection(s) to 'boutique' wheels is; often the inability to get them serviced locally, affect any field repairs and even if the company repairs their wheels for you, unless you have a back up set your bike is down for several weeks.
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Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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I just bought a used set of C19's based on comments from this forum and a recommendation by Craig Calfee.
The front wheel has a a large dent where the brake pad rubs. The seller tells me that they ride true but there is a thud when braking. So, I will be sending the wheel back to Topolino to have the rim replaced.
I appreciate everyones feedback on these wheels. I think I am finished with my upgrades at least for a while. Unless, anyone has tire recommendations. My goal is to ride centuries, so comfort will play a big role on what I buy.
Bruce
Edited by Darby (09/03/06 06:41 PM)
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tall_jason
new member
Reged: 08/15/06
Posts: 13
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My Topolino rear wheel is on it's way back from being repaired. It was covered under warranty (1 yr) so I just have to pay for shipping it to them. I talked to them on the phone and they said that they couldn't determine the cause of the failure.
As for tires, everyone has one if not several recommendations.
I like:
Continental GP3000, GP4000
Michelin ProRace 2
Verdestein Fortezza SE (the cheap blue ones)
I didn't like:
Bontrager tires the ship with mid-range Kleins.
Hutchison Carbon Comp
Continental Attack/Force
YMMV
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64cm Dragonfly custom geometry
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
tall_jason wrote:
As for tires, everyone has one if not several recommendations.
I like:
Continental GP3000, GP4000
Michelin ProRace 2
Verdestein Fortezza SE (the cheap blue ones)
YMMV
Thanks for the recommendations,
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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I ride Vredestein Fortezza Tri-Comps @ 130 psi and have for a few years now. Since I always use the same tires at the same pressure it was an easy comparison going from my DA wheels to the Topos on the same roads. I have also used Veloflex Paves and like their ride but prefer the Tri-Comps.
Congrats on the Topos!
Have you posted any pics of your buildup?
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
I ride Vredestein Fortezza Tri-Comps @ 130 psi and have for a few years now. Since I always use the same tires at the same pressure it was an easy comparison going from my DA wheels to the Topos on the same roads. I have also used Veloflex Paves and like their ride but prefer the Tri-Comps.
Congrats on the Topos!
Have you posted any pics of your buildup?
Thanks for the recommendation. I posted one picture of the bike that was taken by the seller. It is listed as "Bruce Darby's new used 60cm Luna Pro". I am making a few changes to the bike, including the topo wheels and will post new pictures soon.
Thanks again for the help,
Bruce Darby
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Mike
contributor
Reged: 12/25/03
Posts: 101
Loc: Oregon
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I love Veloflex Paves, but have never ridden the Vredesteins. Can you comment on the differences?
-mike
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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The Paves are a very nice tire and ride almost identical to the Tricomps for me. Both have excellent resistance to flats, hold up well to the miles and are priced about the same. The Paves are a bit lighter (width is 22 vs the Tricomps 23) but, even so, it was really hard for me to tell a difference.
My LBS stocks the tricomps and not the paves which is probably the biggest reason why I stick with the tricomps. Overall the Pave is a quality tire with just as good (if not better) specs than the tire I roll with.
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Mike
contributor
Reged: 12/25/03
Posts: 101
Loc: Oregon
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BRUCE WHERE ARE YOU?