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RoyGB
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Reged: 02/13/05
Posts: 28
Loc: Holliston, MA
Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new
#5480 - 03/22/05 06:17 AM (24.62.40.37)

Hi folks:

Here is the first report of the three-way test that I said I’d be doing in the Z2/Z3 photos thread. First, it’s been one heck of a winter here in Massachusetts; it seems like we would get a few inches of snow every 4-5 days. Thus, I apologize for not getting this test going sooner.

This gives my first impressions of the way the Parlee Z3, the Moots Vamoots Compact, and the Waterford 1200 compare strictly to each other in terms of their ride characteristics. In order for riding position to not be a variable, I have done my best to duplicate saddle height, horizontal saddle position relative to the bottom bracket, reach from saddle to bars, and height of the bars relative to the saddle. I have 59 miles on the Parlee, 67 miles on the Moots, and 112 miles on the Waterford.

First, I want to describe in more detail the parts spec for each bike. My Waterford 1200 (c. 1995) is a classic lugged steel frame built with Reynolds 753, and has a flat-crown Reynolds 531 fork. It is equipped with Dura Ace 8spd of the same vintage. For the purpose of this test, I am using Mavic ’04 Ksyrium Elite wheels with Michelin Pro Race tires. An American Classic post, old school Rolls ti-railed saddle, Profile H2O quill stem, and 3T bars, and my Look PP96 (hey, I have 4 pairs and they’re still going strong, what can I say) round out the package. Without the pedals, the 54cm bike weighs 19.7lbs.

The Parlee Z3 has a King headset and Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork (Parlee typically sells its framesets as a frame/fork/headset package). It has Mavic ‘04 Ksyrium Elite wheels with Michelin Pro Race tires. The bike is equipped with Ultegra 10spd, Ritchey Comp oversized post, Ritchey Pro bars and stem, and I’m using my saddle and pedals. Without pedals, and with its showroom Arione saddle, the Parlee weighs 17.4lbs.

The Moots Vamoots Compact has an FSA Orbit Extreme Pro headset and Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork, Mavic ’04 Ksyrium Elite wheels with Michelin Carbon Race tires, and is equipped with Ultegra 9spd. A Ritchey Comp post and Ritchey Pro bars and stem, along with my saddle and pedals round out the bike’s spec for this project. Without pedals, and with its showroom Flite saddle, the bike weighs 18.3lbs.

I thought it would be good to use the Waterford as my standard for comparison, partly because I have been riding it off and on for 10 years, and also because many of you have probably ridden and/or still own a top-of-the-line lugged steel frame similar to this. I felt that my familiarity with this bike would give a good basis with which to compare the Parlee and Moots. Prior to this project, the bike had been hanging in my garage for about a year as I was mostly riding a ti bike. Once I tuned it up and put the Ksyrium Elites on, I couldn’t help but smile as I became re-acquainted with my old friend. My Waterford has a solid, reassuring feel that great steel bikes have, yet manages to smooth out road buzz just enough to give me comfort balanced with good road feel. Sprinting up the small hills of the rolling terrain around my house, I can get the front derailleur cage to rub a bit, but it’s nothing that would bother me. Not surprisingly, I feel the handling is very predictable; it holds a straight line when I want it to yet swerves around the inevitable pothole with a little sway of my hips.

When I got on the Moots, I could tell after the first few pedal strokes that it would do an even better job with road vibration than the Waterford. In fact, I double-checked the Moots’ tire pressure before the second ride just to make sure that variable remained constant. Ripple bumps that would rattle the Waterford a bit would be smoothed out some by the Moots (and the Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork) to my liking. Sprinting up hills, it seemed I could cause about the same amount of chain rub as the Waterford, but I really wasn’t focusing on drivetrain rigidity on any of the bikes for the first few rides. However, I definitely appreciated that the Moots was 1.4lbs lighter that the Waterford during the short climbs of these rides. Acceleration also seemed easier due to its lighter weight. Handling was, like the Waterford, nice and neutral, which I personally prefer.

While the Waterford and Moots shared many great qualities, my first impression of the Parlee was that it had great qualities that were decidedly different. On my first ride, I noticed that it not only smoothed out ripple bumps like the Moots, but it also muted road buzz. The closest comparison I can think of is the change in a car’s hum as you abruptly transition from one type of highway paving material to another smoother, quieter type of paving material. During the first ride, I initially found myself wanting that road buzz back, but as the ride went on, I began to get used to, and even like, the quieter ride. During my second ride on the bike, I really didn’t give the more muted ride a second thought; it was what it was and I liked it. I didn’t notice any drivetrain flex during short sprints, but again I wasn’t focusing on that during these first few rides. The other quality that I noticed was that the Parlee felt a bit more light and nimble that either the Waterford or the Moots. The bike responded more instantaneously to my body English, especially in the middle of a couple of sweeping turns where I had to dodge some potholes in those turns. This trait gave the bike an edgy feel feel for me; I had to pay more attention to what I was doing. I think that its combination of geometry and light weight is what gives the Parlee its edgy, racier feel. That made this bike fun during these initial rides. However, I’ll be willing to bet that I’ll need to concentrate more to hold a straight line, especially at the end of a long ride when I’m tired. We’ll see.

Anyway, that’s it for now. I’ll be adding more as I put more miles on the bikes. I’m also thinking of trying to quantify some of these subjective observations.

Roy

--------------------
Roy Cervantes
Grace Bicycles
www.gracebicycles.com


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TiLee
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Reged: 10/19/04
Posts: 11
Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: RoyGB]
#5482 - 03/22/05 08:41 AM (12.75.198.166)

Thanks for the great review. Now I anxiously await the next installment.

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SFA
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Reged: 03/18/05
Posts: 4
Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: RoyGB]
#5502 - 03/23/05 07:57 PM (68.136.14.219)

I've started to look at Vamoots and Z2/Z3 frames. Your reviews will be a big help in comparing the two. In the Z2/Z3 photo thread you mention that the Z3 is a M/L; what are the Vamoots Compact and Waterford geometries?

Thanks.


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RoyGB
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Reged: 02/13/05
Posts: 28
Loc: Holliston, MA
Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: TiLee]
#5534 - 03/24/05 09:54 PM (24.62.40.37)

I'm waiting for this darn winter to end. Another 5 inches this morning...

Went for another ride on the Parlee 2 days ago. So smooooooth...

Hey, did you get your Z1x yet?

--------------------
Roy Cervantes
Grace Bicycles
www.gracebicycles.com


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RoyGB
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Reged: 02/13/05
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: SFA]
#5535 - 03/24/05 10:20 PM (24.62.40.37)

The Vamoots Compact test bike geometry is:
Frame size: 53.5
Effective top tube: 54.5cm
Seat tube length (c-t): 50.0cm
Head tube length:12.0cm
Head angle: 73.25deg
Seat angle: 74.0deg
BB drop: 7.2cm
Chainstay length: 40.5cm
Standover height: 77.5cm


My Waterford's geometry is:
Frame size: 54
Effective top tube: 55.0cm
Seat tube length (c-t): 54.0cm
Head tube length:11.8cm
Head angle: 74.0deg
Seat angle: 74.5deg
BB drop: 7.0cm
Chainstay length: 41.0cm
Standover height: 79.0cm

I'll add the Parlee's geometry just for good measure:
The Parlee Z3's geometry is:
Frame size: M/L
Effective top tube: 56.0cm
Seat tube length (c-t): 52.0cm
Head tube length:14.1cm
Head angle: 73.5deg
Seat angle: 73.0deg
BB drop: 7.0cm
Chainstay length: 41.0cm
Standover height: 77.8cm

I'll add my two cents on geometry as it relates to both handling and bike fit as I put more miles on the bikes and write down my follow up thoughts.

Roy

--------------------
Roy Cervantes
Grace Bicycles
www.gracebicycles.com


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jt2gt
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Reged: 08/24/04
Posts: 6
Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: RoyGB]
#5546 - 03/25/05 04:02 PM (63.85.217.47)

Roy...thanks for the numbers, that helps. Can we get pics of all three or are they posted here somewhere (I know the Z3 is).

Any reason you went with the Z3 in M/L and not M or is that just the size Parlee gave you. The M seems to fit the numbers better with the Moots and Waterford.

Also...how tall are you and what is your cycling inseam and saddle height. Thanks for the review...JT

Edited by jt2gt (03/25/05 04:03 PM)


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TiLee
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Reged: 10/19/04
Posts: 11
Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison- Roy new [Re: RoyGB]
#5549 - 03/25/05 06:35 PM (12.75.197.148)

The Z1x is sitting pretty in the kitchen waiting for decent weather/road conditions. Can't figure out how to post pics on this site.

Did one 35 mile ride and had shifting problems. Got that corrected and just did a few loops around the block to test. So I've been riding my DA equipped Vamoots beeter bike. Life ain't so bad!

First impression of Z1x is WOW! As expected, the bike seems to excel in all areas.Wish I could say the same for its pilot. Can't wait to put it thru it paces real proper like.

Checked out your web site. Very nice. You sure do carry some high end stuff.


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RoyGB
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Reged: 02/13/05
Posts: 28
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: jt2gt]
#5567 - 03/29/05 12:36 PM (24.62.100.131)

Hi JT,

Sorry for the delayed reply- busy weekend at my shop and with family.

The Z3 pics are in the Parlee photo gallery, but you've probably already found them. I tested the Z3 in M/L because it's one of the Parlee bikes I keep in my store available for potential customers to test ride on an extended basis. I'm actually waiting for delivery of my custom Z1 which has both custom geometry and carbon layup, but more on that later. I'm closer to most companies' stock 53 or 54 geometries, but I was able to get my positional numbers pretty darn close on the Z3 and the Moots.

My positional numbers are as follows:

Saddle height from the top middle of the saddle to the BB center= 71.9cm

Reach from the back of my Rolls saddle (28.0cm long) to the center of the handlebars=78.3cm

Saddle/handlebar height difference=3.2cm

Horizontal saddle position usually falls into place when the above three parameters are met; using a seatpost with a typical setback of 2.0cm on a frame that has a 74.0deg seat angle, my saddle is clamped in the center of the rails.

My height is 172.5cm, and my cycling inseam is 81.1cm.

I'll try to post pics of the Waterford and Moots soon.

--------------------
Roy Cervantes
Grace Bicycles
www.gracebicycles.com


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RoyGB
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Reged: 02/13/05
Posts: 28
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison- Roy new [Re: TiLee]
#5568 - 03/29/05 12:47 PM (24.62.100.131)

Hi TiLee

Thanks for the compliment on my website, though I think it definitely needs work.

As for posting photos on this, go the Photo gallery and click on the Upload Photos link. Then use the Choose File button to choose the photo file on your computer that you want to upload. Hope that helps.

Look forward to more thoughts on your Z1X.

--------------------
Roy Cervantes
Grace Bicycles
www.gracebicycles.com


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TiLee
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison- Roy new [Re: RoyGB]
#5654 - 04/09/05 07:12 PM (12.75.197.71)

Did my first shake out club ride with the Z1x today. (57 miles and 3,400 feet of climbing. Felt like one with the bike. Although the Parlee is set up identical to the Moots position wise, the Parlee seems to fit better. The Parlee is custom the Moots is not.

The ride was sublime in all aspects. While I normally second guess parts selection and while only time will tell, I'm very pleased with the build and set up. I especially like the 3T Bio-Morphe bars. Very comfortable in drops, hooks, hoods and tops. Tomorrow I return to the climbing "A" boys for a 75 mile true test.


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ipaul
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Reged: 04/24/05
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: RoyGB]
#5779 - 04/24/05 12:56 AM (69.248.188.74)

Roy,
I'm considering either going with a Parlee Z2/3 or a Seven Axiom but my heart wants to go with the Parlee. The concern is the geometry. I too ride frames 54 C-C and around a 55 TT and 11cm stem.
My numbers are:
Saddle height from the top middle of the saddle to the BB center= 74cm

Reach from the back of my Turbomatic saddle to the center of the handlebars=81.3cm

Saddle/handlebar height difference=7-8cm (still work in progress).
I'm 5'10 and weigh 140 lbs.

My question is what yourself or others on this forum recommend for frame size. M or M/L?
I'm having a tough time which to go with as the headtube lengths are a bit small (I feel a 15mm keeps the spacers down) and I prefer a bit longer wheelbase that the M gives.
Based on my specifications would you recommend the M/L or the M. Or am I someone who should be looking at the Z1? This could pose a cost concern.
Thanks for your help
Paul

--------------------
:-P


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RoyGB
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Reged: 02/13/05
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: ipaul]
#5780 - 04/24/05 03:02 AM (24.62.100.131)

Hi Paul,

I'm glad you're focusing on head tube length, as it is critical these days in achieving the saddle/handlebar difference that folks want without using too many spacers or a stem with an extreme upward angle. You've left out a couple of pieces of info that would help me:

1) What is your stem angle preference, and what is the maximum upward angle that you are willing to live with aesthetically?

2) What is the maximum number of spacers your fork manufacturer recommends? (Reynolds Ouzo Pro and Seven 5E are both 3.0cm max.) Aesthetically, can you live with up to 3.0cm of spacers, or do you prefer less?

Head tube length, stem angle, and spacers all combine to achieve the saddle/handlebar difference you want. Restrict one or more of these factors due to your aesthetic preferences and the other factors will need to compensate to achieve your end positional goal. In your case, going with a M Z3 that has a head tube length of 12.2cm, an 11cm 84deg (or -6deg) stem, and 3.0cm of spacers, with your 74.0cm saddle height would yield a saddle/handlebar differential of about 7.7cm. Flipping that same stem to 96 degrees and using 1.0cm of spacers would yield about the same differential.

Based on the info you've given so far, I'd go with the 53 Z2 or M Z3 not only because you can get the differential you want, but also because an 11cm stem is, proportionally, a better match for the 54.5cm top tube of either of those sizes; in the future you could go to a 10cm or 12cm without detracting from the overall handling of the bike. Assuming that your saddle height of 74.0cm is optimal for your inseam, I'll assume that your inseam is about 83.4cm. 53cm Z2 standover height is 79.4cm, and M Z3 standover height is 76.1cm, so you're good there. If you're using a setback post, your traditional Turbomatic saddle should be clamped fairly close to center of the rails when all is said and done.

One other note: I was speaking with Jonathan at Parlee the other day and he mentioned that Parlee had gone to adding a 1.0cm head tube extension to their Z2 and Z3's in order to help cut down on spacers. I think this is a great idea. However, I'm pretty sure the geometry on the Parlee website does NOT reflect this 1.0cm head tube extension addition. If it doesn't, then the M Z3 would actually have a total head tube length of 13.2cm, not 12.2 as currently listed. All the other head tube lengths of the Z2's and Z3's would also be 1.0cm longer than listed. I'll check in with Parlee on Monday and post an answer.

Hope this helps you, Paul, and everyone else! Sorry I haven't had time to finish off the 3-way test yet; I'm workin' on it!

Regards,
Roy

--------------------
Roy Cervantes
Grace Bicycles
www.gracebicycles.com


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ipaul
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Reged: 04/24/05
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: RoyGB]
#5781 - 04/24/05 11:00 AM (69.248.188.74)

Thanks Roy for that detailed response.

As for the info. I left out.
1) Stem angle preference is 80 degree (-10) , and what is the maximum upward angle that I would be willing to live with aesthetically is an 84 (-6).

2) Maximum number of spacers for any of my fork choices would be at the 3.0 cm #. Aesthetically, I can you live with up to 2.5-3.0 cm of spacers, but would prefer less since I feel more attached to the bike.

My inseam is as you say and I slam my turbomatic post all the way back on my current 73.5 degree seat angle bike.

When compensating for the difference in seat angles between the M and M/L I see that the Top tube difference is not as severe, 55.4 with all being concerned. I've ridden bikes with that size tt and used an 11 cm stem, but my fear is getting a bike too big as I'm not getting anymore flexible these days.

I too have seen on the Hampsten website that either a 1 cm or 2 cm addtional extention is offered free of charge. I'd be interested in knowing if that is true since the current layout would negate me using a non-rise stem which just feel awkward to me (yea I know its in my head)

The other thing I was wondering is the tight wheelbase. How will that effect the stability on decents? I've ridden C-50's and found the longer wheelbase really gave me confidence on fast decents.

Thanks again for your help.
Paul

--------------------
:-P


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RoyGB
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Reged: 02/13/05
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: ipaul]
#5783 - 04/24/05 11:38 PM (24.62.100.131)

Paul,

Regarding achieving your differential, I'd go with the 84deg stem with 2.0cm of spacers and a 1.0cm head tube extension to bring the total head tube length on a 53cm Z2 to 13.2cm. That will leave you room to adjust your differential by flipping the stem and moving the spacers around. With the 2.0cm of spacers under the stem, I'd keep 0.5-1.0cm above the stem again for future adjustability.

Regarding the handling, I don't feel that, on paper, Parlee's geometry is particularly aggressive. In fact, from what I could glean from Colnago's website, the C50 has shorter chainstays that Parlee's. However, it's a combination of chainstay length, BB drop, and trail that play a big part in a bike's responsiveness to your body english. Other factors such as the frame's vertical compliance and lateral rigidity, component choice (wheels and fork mainly), tires and tire pressure, as well as rider weight distribution on the bike, can also affect a bike's handling characteristics. I will say that the Z3 I've been riding is a touch more responsive to my body english that the Moots or my Waterford, but not sure I'd attribute it solely to geometry. In any case, the better the rider is positioned and balanced on a performance road bike, and as long as the frame designer has paid attention to using trail, chainstay length, and BB drop properly relative to frame size, the bike will handle consistently throughout a wide range of speeds and conditions, especially when the speed goes up and the you hit the sweeping curves. Everything that I've experienced and read about the Parlees so far has shown that they are performance bikes that won't surprise you.

Regards,
Roy

--------------------
Roy Cervantes
Grace Bicycles
www.gracebicycles.com


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RoyGB
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Reged: 02/13/05
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: ipaul]
#5786 - 04/26/05 01:25 AM (24.62.100.131)

Paul,

Regarding the 1.0cm head tube extension on Z2's and Z3's, I emailed Jonathan at Parlee, and he emailed me back that, as a stock default, Parlee is building Z2's with a 1.0cm extension. If the customer decides not to have the extension, they take it off before the frame heads to finishing and clearcoating. Z3's as a stock default do not get head tube extensions, so if a customer requests one, a new Z3 frame is started.

I think that's clear. If not, shoot me an email.

Roy

--------------------
Roy Cervantes
Grace Bicycles
www.gracebicycles.com


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ipaul
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Reged: 04/24/05
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: RoyGB]
#5787 - 04/26/05 09:30 AM (69.248.188.74)

Thanks for all your help Roy,

From the sounds of it you would recommend me going with the 53 plus the 1 cm headtube extention as opposed to the 55. I'll bounce this around a if I have any further questions, I'll let you know.
Paul

--------------------
:-P


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RoyGB
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Reged: 02/13/05
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: ipaul]
#5788 - 04/26/05 11:33 AM (24.62.100.131)

Paul,

Yes, my opinion would be to go with the 53cm with a 1.0cm extension. If anyone else has thoughts, please chime in! I don't wish to be the only one on the soapbox.

A last thought. The best way to doublecheck the positional numbers we've been talking about would be to take a bike that has a very similar geometry with respect to the 53cm in terms of head tube length and effective top tube and set it up with the stem length and angle, # of spacers, saddle height and horizontal position.

Have fun through the rest of the process, Paul!

Roy

--------------------
Roy Cervantes
Grace Bicycles
www.gracebicycles.com


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ipaul
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Reged: 04/24/05
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: RoyGB]
#5791 - 04/26/05 11:54 PM (69.248.188.74)

Thanks Roy and I'll take your suggestions as a guide and not the final say. I will see if I can set up a bike similar to see if things can be set up as we have figured.

Now enough about my problem, get on with your comparison.

--------------------
:-P


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jt2gt
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Reged: 08/24/04
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: ipaul]
#5828 - 05/02/05 03:36 PM (63.85.217.47)

ipaul...I would call and talk to Jonathan at Parlee or Steve Hampsten -- www.hampsten.com. Both of them helped me nail down my fit and I am very pleased.

Just for your info I am slightly under 5'8" and was in between getting the Z3 small or medium. Went with the medium.

BTW...if you are less flexible, I always thought you go with the bigger size so you're saddle to bar drop isn't as severe.

Good luck...JT


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TiLee
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison- Roy new [Re: RoyGB]
#6101 - 06/03/05 07:32 PM (12.75.198.48)

Roy, I'm jonsin for your next installment.

After this weekend, I'll have about 1,000 miles on the Z1x. It just keeps getting better from the starting point of WOW! I just put the BioMorph's on the Moots since I like them so much on the Parlee. Bikes are now set up real close to identical geometrically speaking.

The Parlee is definately lighter. There is a greater feeling of direct power transfer on the Parlee.

I'm doing back to back 130 milers this weekend and despite rain for tomarrow I'm taking the Parlee because it just rides better.


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RoyGB
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison- Roy new [Re: TiLee]
#6130 - 06/10/05 01:48 PM (24.62.100.131)

Hi TiLee,

First, I apologize for the delayed reply- my shop's been busy and I haven't had a chance to check this forum until now.

It'll probably be another month before I write my final comments on this particular comparison because I'd like to get a few more miles on each bike.

I'm glad to see you're enjoying your Parlee.

--------------------
Roy Cervantes
Grace Bicycles
www.gracebicycles.com


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ajhoop
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: RoyGB]
#6502 - 08/22/05 03:53 PM (156.80.46.160)

Roy,
I, like many others, am waiting anxiously for your next update! I've just purchased a Z3 frameset, but it won't be on the road for several more months until I can afford to build it up. The waiting is torture!

The two bikes at the top of my list were the Parlee and the Moots, so I've really enjoyed this thread.

Andy


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reburns
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Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison [Re: ajhoop]
#8099 - 09/08/06 02:43 PM (71.208.111.203)

Hi all,

I enjoyed this thread because I'm in the market for a bike and so far have three contenders, all rather different. Perhaps y'all can help me decide:

Moots Vamoots
Merckx Team SC / Premium
Parlee Z2

I rode the Vamoots for about 3-4 hours, Merckx for one, and Parlee for 3-4 hours also. All demo bikes were about 2.5cm small for me. They shared the same traditional 3x front wheel for the test rides.

Vamoots: probably the top contender, primarily for durability. Seemed the most stable, although at the same time it seemed to take the tightest turns. It felt the harshest of the three.

Merckx SC: Felt real natural, fun to ride (racy paint job?). Surprisingly, this team racer's bike seemed to take the same turns wider. Not sure how if these aluminum/sc frames will stay together as long as I will.

Parlee Z2: Very nice road absorption. Stability is real good, handling real good. I initially excluded carbon from my choices because of durability concerns, but am reconsidering. The price of the Parlee makes me queasy.

All are super nice. My current thinking is to go for whichever happens to be the best price deal, hoping for a lightly used one. I'm a recreational rider, doing hill climbs and bombing descents in the Rockies for mountaineering fitness. I could get away with spending a lot less, but figure if I do it right the bike will last me many seasons.

Have any suggestions for a decision? Thanks!



p.s. here's some current fit data:
Height: 6'2" (188cm) Wt: 165-170lbs (75kg)
58cm C-T
57cm top tube with 11cm stem
Saddle height: 81.5cm
Saddle - bar delta: 11cm
I have a ruptured disk and soreness in my lower back. I find that tilting my seat forward just a tad really helps, or the tackle will go numb. I generally get numbing in the left hand after an hour.
------------------------
www.ascent-design.com


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Insightdriver
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Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
Re: Parlee, Moots, Waterford comparison new [Re: reburns]
#8104 - 09/11/06 12:25 AM (67.169.228.138)

Frankly I think you can make up your own mind. In telling us your considerations you may have gelled in your mind what you prefer. As all three are fine bikes, the choices are all personal ones. The bike you like the most is the one you should choose. For recreational riding, as I am one myself, then the one that felt most comfortable would be, in my personal opinion, the best choice. In my personal opinion, about the only material I don't consider any more for a long-term bike is aluminum, but I do admit that it's more for emotional reasons than any practical one.

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