mcm
new member
Reged: 12/25/03
Posts: 8
Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Looks like the new topolino's will be out in 2007.
With a new hub!!!
Sweet Wheels
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tall_jason
new member
Reged: 08/15/06
Posts: 13
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I just got a postcard in the mail about those on Friday. They look like they just changed the hub to carbon and shaved 30 grams. They're $100 more MSRP than the previous models as well.
I finally got my Topolino back from repairs. No charge for the repair and no idea from them what the failure was. I just need to get it taped up and reinstall the cassette and it'll be ready to go on my backup bike for the 508 next month.
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64cm Dragonfly custom geometry
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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My Topolino C19 wheels arrived today. I bought a used set off of Ebay and then sent them to Topolino for any repair work that was necessary. Since my bike is currently in the shop, it will be at least two weeks before I am able to ride them.
One thing I never even thought about when buying these C19s was "Rotational Weight." In fact I didn't know what the concept meant. My understanding of rotational weight is that some light weight wheels accelerate quickly but require a lot of energy to keep them moving. I believe it has to do with how the weight is distributed on the wheel.
My question: How is the rotational weight of the C19's and how much energy does it take to keep them spinning? Will adding heavier tires reduce the amount of energy needed to keep them spinning?
Bruce
Edited by Darby (09/20/06 01:51 AM)
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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Just a follow up on my earlier post.
I spoke to Topolino about Rotational Weight on the C19 wheels. According to Dave, Rotational Weight is an urban legend. Having heavier wheels does not mean that momentum will keep them spinning faster or longer.
If anyone has a different opinion, I would like to hear your views.
Bruce
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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I am on a complete second season on my Topos and still very happy with them. I am 175 lbs and have only had two issues with them.
One is nipple breaking, I think I have had 3-4 nipple s break in 2 years of riding.
The other issue is the hubs become loose. I sent them back to Topolino, and they repaired them at no expense to me (other than shipping them there) and I think they were out of warranty.
Also, even if the nipple breaks, I have been able to ride the wheel back to the start of the ride without problems. I just open up the brake. Since the topos have more spokes than regular light wheels, they don't seem to go out of true as much.
Bruce
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Bruce wrote:
I am on a complete second season on my Topos and still very happy with them. I am 175 lbs and have only had two issues with them.
One is nipple breaking, I think I have had 3-4 nipple s break in 2 years of riding.
The other issue is the hubs become loose. I sent them back to Topolino, and they repaired them at no expense to me (other than shipping them there) and I think they were out of warranty.
Also, even if the nipple breaks, I have been able to ride the wheel back to the start of the ride without problems. I just open up the brake. Since the topos have more spokes than regular light wheels, they don't seem to go out of true as much.
Bruce
Bruce, thanks for the feedback. This forum has been a big help to me. I have had people criticize the Topolinos that have no expereince with them. If it wasn't for the positive feedback I received on this forum, I wouldn't have bought the wheels.
Thanks,
Bruce
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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Darby,
Just reviewing the forum again and noticed your question about rotational mass.
Rotating mass is generally a bad thing, and here is why. Mass takes energy to move. The more mass, the more energy it takes to move. On a wheel, this mass to be concerned about is on the outside (the rim and spokes), so it is a large lever that you need to move, and you have a distinct disadvantage due to the mechanical properties of the drive train, ie, you are geared to have a single revolution of the crank rotate the wheel more than once.
As an example, try swinging a hammer. Then try swinging a ruler or dowel. It takes a lot less work to swing the ruler. Wheels work the same way.
Now once you get the wheel up to speed, it does not take much to keep it rolling, but here is the rub. Cyclists tend not to keep the same speed. In a race, or on a fast pack ride, the peloton speeds up and slows down all the time. A heavy wheel requires more energy to get up to speed, and you are constantly changing speeds. So you want a light wheel that does not take as much energy to get up to speed.
Now what does this all mean to an average cyclist. Nothing if you are not going fast. A faster rider will want to keep up with surges in the peloton, and lighter wheels will help you do this. Lighter wheels are also great for hill climbing. Not as much energy is required to keep them rolling up a hil, less lifting. Try a lighter wheel on a fast ride and you will find the bike is easier to get up to speed and will seem zipper and a joy to ride.
This is one reason I love the Topo wheels, they are light, but also an alloy rim, and strong, so you can use them as an every day wheel. They make a difference, and to say otherwise is a lie. Would I like a lighter wheel? Sure, but lighter wheels tend to be carbon and are not as durable as alloy rims.
Hope this helps
Bruce
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bfd
journeyman
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 77
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Bruce states:
<One is nipple breaking, I think I have had 3-4 nipple s break in 2 years of riding.>
Are the nipples easily replaceable? Could you do it yourself or have a shop do it? Or did you have to send the entire wheel back to Topolino to repair?
One reason why I like my hand-built conventional wheels are the fact that IF I somehow break a spoke or nipple, it can be fixed at "Any-Shop-USA."
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 184
Loc: Plano, TX
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I was thinking I would wait a while longer to post my latest ongoings with the topos, but figured what the heck.
I'm still using the topos but have had a few problems with them since I first got them. After the first few weeks of riding I noticed a popping sound coming from my bike. At first I thought it was a bottom bracket, but after a bit of diagnosis it turned out the sound was coming from my rear wheel, more specifically the hub.
After my ride I noticed my rear wheel was out of true so I took it into my LBS for a truing. At this point I didnt know it was the hub and figured perhaps the popping was one of the spokes shifting or something. I got the wheel back and went for a ride only to hear the popping sound again. At the end of the ride the wheel was out of true again and I found that if I wiggled the wheel back and forth while holding the bike, I heard creaking sounds coming from the rear hub.
After a number of emails with Topolino and discussion with my LBS it was determined that the bearings shipped with my rear hub were just barely too small for the shell. Rather than send the wheel back to Topolino, they shipped new bearings for both wheels out to my LBS. I have been out of town on rides and just got the new bearings put in but haven't taken them out on a ride yet. They have passed my low-tech wiggle test and seem much tighter than before. Only time will tell if the new bearings slience the squeaking or fix the constantly out-of-true ness of the wheel. I'm hoping so.
While this has been a bit of a headache I have to say that the folks at Topolino have been extremely helpful, very cooperative and easy to talk to.
I will keep everyone updated!
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Insightdriver
captain
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
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Thanks for the info. Seems that bearing size must be a factor they are aware of. hmmmmm.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Bruce wrote:
Darby,
Just reviewing the forum again and noticed your question about rotational mass.
Rotating mass is generally a bad thing, and here is why. Mass takes energy to move. The more mass, the more energy it takes to move. On a wheel, this mass to be concerned about is on the outside (the rim and spokes), so it is a large lever that you need to move, and you have a distinct disadvantage due to the mechanical properties of the drive train, ie, you are geared to have a single revolution of the crank rotate the wheel more than once.
Bruce
Bruce thanks for clarifying the meaning of rotational weight. Either I understood it wrong or it was explained to me wrong. It was described to me as working like a flywheel. It takes more effort to get the mass moving but then inertia keeps it spinning with less effort.
Anyway, thanks Bruce for your enthusiasm for the Topolino wheels. It was the recommendations from this forum and a conversation with by Craig Calfee that persuaded me to buy my C19s. What I wanted was a wheel that would isolate as much road vibration as possible. My old steel frame Panasonic bike rides like a tractor. The ride was so harsh that I quit ridding it and it now collecting dust in my garage. It is headed for the trash as soon as I get my Calfee out the shop.
My only concern with the Topos is reliability. One of the mechanics at my bike shop told me to keep a backup set of wheels because the Topos will develop hub problems especially in the front wheel. I was actually considering selling my backup wheels which are an almost new set up Mavic CXP 33. However, based on some of the comments I have heard, I may want hang on to them.
Bruce
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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You can true a nipple or true a Topolino wheel just like any other hand built wheel. The only problem it trying to keep the spoke from twisting while you get it to the right tension. I generally use a pair of padded pliers to hold the spoke at the molded plastic end.
You can even use a standard nipple. The ones Topolino uses weigh a gram less each, or almost an ounce a wheel, so they make a difference when all combined.
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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Quote:
Darby wrote:
It was described to me as working like a flywheel. It takes more effort to get the mass moving but then inertia keeps it spinning with less effort.
...
My only concern with the Topos is reliability. One of the mechanics at my bike shop told me to keep a backup set of wheels because the Topos will develop hub problems especially in the front wheel. I was actually considering selling my backup wheels which are an almost new set up Mavic CXP 33. However, based on some of the comments I have heard, I may want hang on to them.
Bruce
Yes, heavy wheels are like flywheels assuming constant speed, but when was the last time you went a constant speed on a bike? I do in my car with cruise control, but not my bike.
As for keeping a separate set of wheels, yes, recommended. I also keep a second bike in case the Calfee is out of service, like it was most of this summer with various issues (nothing related to the frame though).
Still have to write up the Calfee / Trek 5900 comparison. Exec summary: Calfee is a much better bike!
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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As for keeping a separate set of wheels, yes, recommended. I also keep a second bike in case the Calfee is out of service, like it was most of this summer with various issues (nothing related to the frame though).
Still have to write up the Calfee / Trek 5900 comparison. Exec summary: Calfee is a much better bike!
Bruce,
Your rave reviews on the Topolinos and of course, Craig Calfee's recommendations are the reason I just had to have a set of Topos. However, I still haven?t ridden them since my bike is still in the shop.
I will keep the backup wheels and someday will have a backup bike too. I keep my eyes open for a used 60CM Dragonfly frame or possibly a Tetra. My Luna will become the backup bike. I like the look of the Tetra better than the Luna and have heard that the Tetra frame is almost indestructible. I would like to have a bike that I can ride for the rest of my life.
I want a Dragonfly for less practical reasons. I like the fly for the wow factor. If I had a fly, I would probably spend as much time rubbing on it with a diaper as I did riding it.
Bruce Darby
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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My bike is in the shop having the fork replaced. Today I decided to take the Topolino C19s I just bought to the shop and have new tires installed. The mechanic tried to talk me out of using Topolinos saying that every rider he knows with Topos has had the hubs come apart sometimes injuring the rider and damaging the bike.
That doesn't appear to be the experience of the riders in this forum or the experience of anyone from the reviews that I have read on Topo wheels. Does this sound like misinformation or does anyone know of instances where the wheels have come apart during a ride?
Also, this same mechanic recommended Continental Grand Prix 4-Season tires because they are puncture resistant, perform well in all forms of weather and fairly light. They may also be a little expensive at $55.00 each. A few of the consumer reviews that read say they ride harsh which is not what I want. Is anyone familiar with them?
Bruce
Edited by Darby (10/29/06 04:31 AM)
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 184
Loc: Plano, TX
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Quote:
Darby wrote:
The mechanic tried to talk me out of using Topolinos saying that every rider he knows with Topos has had the hubs come apart sometimes injuring the rider and damaging the bike.
In my research, I hadn't ever heard of this before. I had heard of hubs working loose (like mine) but the situation was easily remedied by Topolino and was no where near bad enough to cause a catastropic failure like that above.
It could be the wrench was a little over-eager when retelling a legit story about a rider (or two) he/she knew who had a problem with Topos.
I have a hard time seeing a hub failure of this magnitude occurring without any prior warning (meaning the rider didn't know there was a problem and the hub fell apart suddenly causing damage to the rider/bike). If the story is true, there are many factors which could have led to the failure of the wheel which are not manufacturer related.
Personally, it's easier for me to believe that someone went a little too far with a story than to believe topo hubs have gone out on multiple people causing damage to bikes and riders. Not saying it couldn't happen, just saying what's easier for me to believe.
To me, it's alot like the stories one hears of chemicals you can put in a pool that turn the water colors when someone pees. These chemicals don't exist, but I have had grown men and women swear to me they have seen it in action. Stories can sometimes just get outta control. 
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tall_jason
new member
Reged: 08/15/06
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Darby wrote:
The mechanic tried to talk me out of using Topolinos saying that every rider he knows with Topos has had the hubs come apart sometimes injuring the rider and damaging the bike.
As previously posted, I broke a spoke in my rear wheel just riding along and my rear hub came a little bit loose at a separate time. Neither caused injury or damage to the bike. When I bought my Topolinos I asked the wrench at the shop about spokes breaking and having to send the wheel back to Topolino for repair. He scoffed and said that he'd only heard of it ever happening once. I haven't been back to the shop yet to tell him that he can double that scoffed at number.
Sounds like it'll come down to how much you trust and value the mechanic's opinion. Certain people at the 2 LBSs that I visit have opinions I trust, others don't.
As for the Conti 4 season tires, I've heard good things about them as well but there's no way to know until you try them. I think you can find a tire pressure that will make most tires relatively comfortable but you have to balance that with being high enough to avoid snake-bite flats. When it starts raining here this winter I'm going to try out the 4 season tires and see what I think of them.
If you go to roadbikereview.com you'll find good and bad opinions on any product you can think of. 
*J
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64cm Dragonfly custom geometry
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bshaw
new member
Reged: 11/06/06
Posts: 1
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Just want to add my experience with a set of AC29 Topolinos. I bought them April 2006 and took them with my Calfee to Italy in May. A nipple on the rear wheel broke on the third day of a week long ride in the Dolomites and no one could fix it, so I had to use a borrowed wheel (thanks, Lennard).
Once home, I mailed the wheel back to Topolino at my expense, they fixed it free of charge and shipped it back several weeks later at their expense.
Less than 500 miles later, the front hub bearings became loose. The LBS took the wheel apart and tried to reseat the bearings. However, it turns out the procedure they used was incorrect and the bearings worked loose 40 miles later.
I eventually had a long conversation with Rafe at Topolino who was extremely helpful and very interested in helping me fix my wheel. I learned that the design of the hub depends on the effects of a hub bolt with tapered threads that expands the aluminum hub barrel as you screw it into the barrel so that the barrel is forced outward against the inner race of the bearings. It is this pressure that holds the bearings in place against the inner recess of the hub. The repair requires use of an axle clamp (which Topo will either loan or sell to you) and a torque wrench to achieve the proper expansion of the aluminum barrel.
As long as I had the hub apart, I ordered some replacement ceramic bearings. However, decided not to try fixing the hub myself without the axle clamp and sent it back to Topolino for repairs.
I mailed the front wheel back to Topolino at my expense, they fixed it free, and shipped it back at their expense. The wheel was out for about 4 weeks.
About 200 miles later, the bearings on the rear wheel worked loose. Ditto. The wheel was gone for about 2 weeks.
I have not had any further troubles for the past 650 miles.
I am 6'5" and ride at about 200-207 lbs on a 64.5 cm Tetra Custom with S&S couplers.
I absolutely love the ride and handling of these wheels. They got the wheel structure right, but the hubs seem to be a weak link. Though unconfirmed, I suspect the new for 2007 Carbon Core hubs are an attempt to address the loosening hub bearing problem.
FWIW, the guy whose ravings about the wheels in May 2005 convinced me to order a pair later stopped using his C19s because of repeated hub bearings coming loose - front and rear. He is 6'7" but only weighs about 180 lbs.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
bshaw wrote:
Though unconfirmed, I suspect the new for 2007 Carbon Core hubs are an attempt to address the loosening hub bearing problem.
I wonder if Topolino will step up to the plate and swap out old hubs with the new design when their wheels develop problems in the future.
I have only put a few miles on my Topolino C19s. I love the way they feel but reliability is important.
Bruce
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wildh
new member
Reged: 11/22/06
Posts: 1
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new to the forum....I've been riding the Topolino AC29's for over 6 months. I do some light racing, long solo rides, on occasional mountain pass, and group rides. I have been very pleased with the performance and comfort of the AC29's. As indicated by others, the bearing issues seem to be of concern. This particular set had the same problems with the tick or creeking sound in the rear hub. The bearing was replaced by Topo and no problems since; however, the front has starting doing the same and I'll be sending it back over the winter. I'm sure it's the same issue. Again, other than that, I've really liked the wheels.
Quote:
To me, it's alot like the stories one hears of chemicals you can put in a pool that turn the water colors when someone pees. These chemicals don't exist, but I have had grown men and women swear to me they have seen it in action. Stories can sometimes just get outta control.
Regarding the above, I've seen this first hand. When my little girl pees in the tub, the water turns yellow. Apparantly they use these chemicals in the city water supply. Magical sutff.
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 184
Loc: Plano, TX
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ROFL - Great line!
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us_wr
new member
Reged: 11/26/06
Posts: 2
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New to forum -- found when searching for info on my C19 wheelset. I have had the wheelset on bike for year and half, riding roughly 8000 miles with no problems until lately. Had a noise in rear hub and LBS ended up talking to Topolino Tech and replacing rear hub. Noise gone but having a crank arm problem -- when bike on stand and I turn crank arms, they keep turning! Topolino Tech says this is normal and part of break in for seal on hub body. Does this sound right?!
Other problem, after riding about 250 miles on new hub body, a rear wheel spoke nipple broke. Now I need to order and replace nipple. Is this because the hub got replaced or just wear? Can I replace nipple myself or get my LBS to replace if I order replacement nipple from Topolino?!
THANKS!
Suzanne
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us_wr
new member
Reged: 11/26/06
Posts: 2
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Where did you get the replacement nipples from -- LBS or special order from Topolino?
Is it easy to replace nipples? My first nipple broke after roughly 8000 miles ... thinking, not so bad!
Thanks, Suzanne
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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Call Topolino. They can send a few nipples out, or use any standard nipple, they just weigh a bit more.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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I broke a nipple on my C19s. I would guess that it is not a good idea to ride the bike until the nipple is replaced. I was planning a ride on Sunday.
Can a local bike shop replace the nipple? I will call Topolino on Monday and buy a couple of nipples.
Bruce
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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I didn't break a nipple, I broke a spoke!
The threaded medal insert that screws into the nipple broke. Topolino tells me that all the spokes on one side of the wheel will need to be replaced. I only have about 700 miles on these wheels so I am a little disenchanted with Topolino right now. Topolino tells me that this sort of failure is rare.
So, I am on my back up wheels--Mavic CXP 33s. They do feel harsher than the Topolinos but not too bad. But I do notice the road feel more.
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 184
Loc: Plano, TX
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Topolino is replacing this under warranty right? Even so, that totally sucks! Did you have any warning that the spoke was about to break, like did the wheel go out of true just before or was it a _snap_ event?
Thanks for letting us know. Keep us posted.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
Topolino is replacing this under warranty right? Even so, that totally sucks! Did you have any warning that the spoke was about to break, like did the wheel go out of true just before or was it a _snap_ event?
Thanks for letting us know. Keep us posted.
I bought the wheels used and then sent them back to Topolino to have the front rim replaced. Unfortunately, the spoke broke on the back wheel. But I don't think Topolino will repair them under warranty. The charge for replacing one side of the wheel is about $100.
There wasn't any warning when the spoke went. I was riding on flat asphalt at about 10 mph. I heard a PWINGGGG noise that sounded like a cartoon sound effect. I stopped looked the bike over and didn't see anything, but the bike rode different, more harsh. I noticed the broken spoke the next day when I checking tire pressure.
Today I was tempted to sell them on Ebay, but I am sure after I have ridden a few days on my Mavics I will change my mind. I do agree, however, that this totally sucks.
I will keep you posted.
Bruce Darby
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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My rear C19 came back from Topolino today. They replaced one side of the wheel set. Topolino has done a redesign of the wheel. My wheel is now half C19 and half C19 Revelation II. The spokes are supposed to be stronger; the part of the hub where the spokes intersect is beefier; and they have removed the black rubber pieces that connect two spoke at a time.
After riding on my Mavic CXP 33 for eight months, riding on this Topos should radically different.
Bruce
Bruce
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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You sent the wheel back to Topolino in January and are now just getting them back?!?! If that's correct, I don't care how good they are, they're not 8 months of waiting good.
--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 423
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Dave_Thompson wrote:
You sent the wheel back to Topolino in January and are now just getting them back?!?! If that's correct, I don't care how good they are, they're not 8 months of waiting good.
I didn't send the wheel back for 8 months. At the time that the wheel broke, I was little unhappy with Topolino so I just let them sit. Well, I have gotten over my initial discontent with Topolino and have decided to give the wheels a second chance. Topolino only had the wheel for about a week.
I guess I will find out if I made a good decision to buy these wheels.
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 184
Loc: Plano, TX
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Just to update everyone on the status of my AC29s...
I shipped my wheels to Topolino on July 30th and I still don't have them back yet.
Topolino called about 2 weeks ago and said they are replacing 1 side of spokes on both wheels under warranty and found a dent in the rear rim; so I had them replace the rim as well ($60~$80 bucks).
I will let you know once I finally get them in hand but turnaround time for a repair isn't looking too speedy at this point.
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 184
Loc: Plano, TX
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