Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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My work schedule may force me to ride at night or early in the AM. So, I am looking for a lighting system that would throw out enough light to ride safely.
Does anyone ride with lights? Any recommendations?
Bruce
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Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Never where I want to be
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I highly recommend my Jet Lites
Not commuting with them yet, the darkness has come. But will. I've ridden mountain bikes with them for 4 years so far. And I've used them to ride road before work in the morning. I have about 1k commuting miles now, and when the dark comes I'll use them -- still new to commuting. Bright as hell. Look up the reviews of these. Jet are good. Customer service has been phenomenal with questions & one fix, I upgraded mine to their new switch/casings since I bought them so long ago. Awesome price to upgrade the ones I had. I can't say enough, and I'm around other mtber's who complain about their non-Jets.
On the road you can get away with bar lights only. I wouldn't have helmet only on the road -- which will work when mountain biking. Going to fast, looking a head. But helmet only is an option -- one I wouldn't do on the road. Both are even better. On my commuter and road bikes I've had to put my computer on the stem because the lights sit across the middle of it, but no other inconvenience.
Oh...and Jet Lites are BRIGHT!
I'm typing fast and grammar/spelling be damned. I got beers and bikes to mess with in the garage.
Ask away if you have any questions I didn't answer.
Oh...on the road FOR SURE you'll want a rear light, too.
OK,
Nev
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Nev wrote:
I highly recommend my Jet Lites Nev
Nev,
Thanks for responding. I had not seen Jet's products before. They look like really high end stuff. Now I have to decide whether I want the light mounted to my helmut or the bars.
By the way, I search the archives after I posted my question and noticed a similar question had been asked a year or two ago. Sorry for asking again.
Bruce
Edited by Darby (10/15/06 04:37 AM)
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tall_jason
new member
Reged: 08/15/06
Posts: 13
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I bought a Jetlite system to use on the 508 this year after renting one earlier in the year. They unfortunately no longer rent the full light set, only batteries. I like the battery life of the system and I like the cost, but I have an issue with the handlebar mount.
The mount clamps onto the bar and then provides a short metal pole (like a bird's perch?) parallel to the bar for the light head to swivel up and down on so that you can aim it. The flexability is nice, but the light head doesn't hold onto the bar tight enough so a few bumps down the road and the light is pointing directly in front of your bike. On the 508 I had to tape something under the light head to hold it in place. It's a disappointing 'feature' of the bar-mounted light.
As for the brightness, I thought they were bright until I rode with my friend and his Light & Motion $600 light. His looked like a car headlight (It's HID) and had the same battery life as my Halogen Jetlite. At over 2x the cost I'm not surprised.
The Jetlite also only comes with either a water bottle shaped battery (bar mount) or a rectangular battery (helmet mount) that has nothing to secure it to the bike. The L&M comes with a frame strap for the battery. I'd rather not give up one bottle during a race at night. If I used it more I'd fashion some type of frame strap thing.
I think the Jetlite is a good entry-level alternative to Niterider and other proper lights. There are a bunch of reviews on mtbr.com (http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/lights) where the Jetlite and L&M lights are at the top of the chart.
If I need a good light for a dark commute, I'd find a way to afford the L&M. For occasional use on double centuries (and for the convenience of renting batteries when I need extra) I'm okay with the Jetlite.
*Jason
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64cm Dragonfly custom geometry
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Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Never where I want to be
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Quote:
tall_jason wrote:
but the light head doesn't hold onto the bar tight enough so a few bumps down the road and the light is pointing directly in front of your bike. On the 508 I had to tape something under the light head to hold it in place. It's a disappointing 'feature' of the bar-mounted light.
Did you try tightening them? I think you need a tiny 2mm allen wrench. I had that on one set when I got my upgrade, tightened them and that was it. I have two pairs (wife also rides) and have 4+ years and a lot of miles on them, including 24hr/12hr mtb races and regular night riding. Also a lot of condtions (rain/mud/cold) and a few crashes. Never had any trouble. If they're not holding you should call Jet. They'll make it good.
"Entry-level" I think is a bit harsh, but Hey.
I've heard a lot of complaints about Night Rider service, although they are the most popular. Haven't used L&M.
Happy trails (and roads, too, I guess)
Nev
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flythebike
captain
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 272
Loc: N. Virginia, USA
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I just bought a Light and Motion Arc. Used a lot my mountain bikers for night trail riding, it is amazing.
Check out www.mtbr.com for reviews.
Personally, I find that the thing is just incredible. Cars no longer pull out in front of me at night and cut in front of me to turn. They wait. Then they wait some more. I pass. Then they go. Amazing.
I can see reflective stuff for like a 100 yards and all the stuff up close is really filled in.
I'm a cat 2 now and I get cost plus ten percent at the shop that sponsors our team, so I got it for a price I can afford, but even at retail, the thing is worth it if you ride year round to work, and thus ride at night four four-six months of the year.
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superunleaded
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 223
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Fly...
A recall on the L&M
http://www.bikelights.com/Support/liion.htm
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07008.html
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***Regular Unleaded - 4.99
***Special Unleaded - 7.99
***Superunleaded - Arm & a Leg
Edited by superunleaded (10/17/06 11:58 PM)
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Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Never where I want to be
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Quote:
superunleaded wrote:
Fly...
A recall on the L&M
http://www.bikelights.com/Support/liion.htm
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07008.html
...beat me to it...
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Insightdriver
captain
Reged: 03/07/04
Posts: 472
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I hope you all realize that it's for bad batteries.. gee, where have we heard that before? At any rate, only two date codes of batteries are bad, so I guess most of them are ok. The link is good information and just recently posted, as well.
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flythebike
captain
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 272
Loc: N. Virginia, USA
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Evidently that is for a batch of batteries from 2003. I have the NIMH battery anyway. I'm not racing with this thing so I don't need the tiny one. People continue to stare agape when I ride by them with this light.
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Bruce
contributor
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 133
Loc: North of NYC
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I will second Jet lights. I bought them about 8 years ago, and they have worked fine every since. I use them in the winter for commuting. Very bright. Cars flash their lights at me if I run both the 20 and 12 watt lamps at the same time. 12 watts is normally enough, but sometimes the 32 watts really help.
I did have to replace the cord (bought a replacement at Radio Shack, Jet uses standard connectors) and I had to redo the plug in the battery pack, but it was user serviceable and a couple of screws has everything tight again.
Recommended.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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It looks like I will need to switch to night rides because of my work schedule.
I haven't decided whether to buy an LED or HID lighting system.
The LED I am looking is the DiNotte. It comes in two types, the dual with two 200 lumen lights or the 600L which is a single 600 lumen light. DiNotte tells me that the dual throws out a wider pattern and is better at seeing objects like pot holes as they get close to the front wheel. The dual is the best value for the money with 400 lumens on the bars and a tail light for $429. The 600 lumen single light cost more but is better for fast descents on steep hills but not so good up close. I would probably also need a helmet light with the 600L. DiNotte's replacement batteries are $70.00.
I am also looking at a Light and Motion Arch HID which is more money and the batteries cost a lot more.
I have been trying to find a review that compares LED and HID, but haven't found anything that is recent. LED technology has improved a lot in the past year. It looks like the HID is the preferred choice for mountain bikers, but I only ride road.
A third option is to build my own light which I have just started researching.
I will ride on some dark canyon roads with no lighting and steep hills.
Anyone have any insight as to the pros and cons of LED or HID?
Thanks,
Bruce
Edited by Darby (09/19/07 03:45 AM)
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NateM
new member
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 16
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Bruce,
The Dinotte tail light is superb as is the universal tail light from Nightrider.Dont skimp on tail lights.The LED headlights are expensive and not as bright as HID's.My L&M Arc puts out 675 lumens on High if you can believe that and 550 lumens on low.If low is really 550, it is not enough for me to safely see at say 20mph. So anything less is just less.Here is a site that sells parts,kits,etc. for putting together a reasonably priced (hah!) HID system. www.trailtech.net Here is a discussion forum which gives some advice on the Trail Tech stuff. http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-1487.html A friend uses Turbcat Halogen lights and is quite happy with them.They overdrive the bulbs creating a brighter light with shorter bulb life.Halogen bulbs are cheap in comparison to HID.Choose the light system that works for your terrain and speed. I personally need the brighter HID for the roads that I ride.You can never have enough lights on your bike at night,be careful out there.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
NateM wrote:
Bruce,
The Dinotte tail light is superb as is the universal tail light from Nightrider.Dont skimp on tail lights.The LED headlights are expensive and not as bright as HID's.My L&M Arc puts out 675 lumens on High if you can believe that and 550 lumens on low.If low is really 550, it is not enough for me to safely see at say 20mph. So anything less is just less.Here is a site that sells parts,kits,etc. for putting together a reasonably priced (hah!) HID system. www.trailtech.net Here is a discussion forum which gives some advice on the Trail Tech stuff. http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-1487.html
Thanks for the help with my lighting decision. I have visited the two websites you provided and the SCMR16 at 1850 lumens looks a good choice, but they do not provide any batteries for the unit. I need to get at least 3 hours of light. Any idea where I might find a good battery for the unit?
As I started my research, the L&M Arc went to the top my list but is now my second choice. The L&M batteries cost $250.00 each and will be higher maintenance than LED. I too thought that LED would not be bright enough until I saw the photos of amount of light that a Lupine Wilma and Betty and Dinotte 600L can do. They light up the road like a car headlight. The Dinotte 600L puts out 600 lumens and the batteries cost $70.00 each.
For $529 the Dinotte 600L comes with a 140 lumen taillight, three lithium batteries and extension cables and mounting hardware.
I like the idea of building my own light just to save money. For the past year I have been able to ride during the day, but my work schedule has increased and I need to start working early in the morning now. Night rides are my only choice.
Thanks,
Bruce
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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I just ordered the Dinotte 600L and tail light on sale for $467.00 delivered. It comes with three lithium batteries. This light will give me 600 lumens on the bars and I can add a Dinotte helmet light for adding another 200 lumens if I need more light.
Dinotte had reduced their price on their highest capacity lithium battery to $50.00 which will give 3.5 hours of run time at full power.
Bruce
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Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Never where I want to be
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Be sure and report back.
Give that rear light a spin during the day time. I think you might remember me posting about mine here a while back.
HERE That dinotte rear is quite a light. I believe it works in the day time as well, cars passing a little wider.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Nev wrote:
Be sure and report back.
Give that rear light a spin during the day time. I think you might remember me posting about mine here a while back.
HERE That dinotte rear is quite a light. I believe it works in the day time as well, cars passing a little wider.
Hi Nev,
I took my first ride tonight with the Dinotte lights and wow am I impressed. The 600L lights up the road like my car's headlights. Although, tonight we had a very bright full moon so it wasn't dark enough to do a true test. However, I can tell you that the light is amazing and I can't imagine that I will need more light that this thing delivers.
I have included a website with some photos of the light pattern.
web page
Bruce
Edited by Darby (09/28/07 04:32 AM)
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NateM
new member
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 16
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Bruce,
now that you have purchased the 600L can you answer a few questions? Are you using 1 battery to power both the head light and tail light? If yes how do you have it wired?
What kind of speed do you think you can safely ride at? Try to be honest here. I used to say that I could safely ride at 30 mph with my L&M Arc HID...I've changed that to 20mph.Its one thing to see something in the road as you hit it and another thing to be able to see it in time to avoid it.I'm interested in your setup but looking for real life reviews.Thanks,Nate Merrill
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
NateM wrote:
Bruce,
now that you have purchased the 600L can you answer a few questions? Are you using 1 battery to power both the head light and tail light? If yes how do you have it wired?
What kind of speed do you think you can safely ride at? Try to be honest here. I used to say that I could safely ride at 30 mph with my L&M Arc HID...I've changed that to 20mph.Its one thing to see something in the road as you hit it and another thing to be able to see it in time to avoid it.I'm interested in your setup but looking for real life reviews.Thanks,Nate Merrill
Nate, I haven't been able to do a very thorough evaluation of the light because we have had a full moon for the past few days but I will be able test my down hill speed in the next few days.
As for wiring up the lights, I have been using two batteries but I will try one tonight. There is a slitter that allows two lights to be connected to one battery but I expect the run time to drop to 2.5 hours which will be fine for me.
I will have an update sometime next week.
Bruce
Edited by Darby (09/28/07 07:59 PM)
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
NateM wrote:
Bruce,
now that you have purchased the 600L can you answer a few questions? Are you using 1 battery to power both the head light and tail light? If yes how do you have it wired?
What kind of speed do you think you can safely ride at? Try to be honest here. I used to say that I could safely ride at 30 mph with my L&M Arc HID...I've changed that to 20mph.Its one thing to see something in the road as you hit it and another thing to be able to see it in time to avoid it.I'm interested in your setup but looking for real life reviews.Thanks,Nate Merrill
Hi Nate,
I did about a 90 minute ride tonight with the new lights and this time I powered both lights with one battery. I prefer using only one battery because then there is only one battery to charge. Hooking up both the headlight and tail light to one battery is easy using a "Y" connector and extension cable. It works very well but need at least one Velcro strap to hold the cable to the top bar. Right now I am letting lights run to drain the battery so I can get an idea of the run time.
As for the speed, right now it is difficult to make a fair statement as to what speed I can hit on hills. We had a 3/4 moon which affected ambient lighting somewhat. Then some of the steepest hills around me have lights on them. The 600L throws out a beam of light about 50 to 75 yards. The road is blanket with a solid patch of light most of that distance. Road signs are illuminated for at distanced of more than a 100 yards. In about a week there will be a couple of nights with no moon. I will do a better test and then measure how far the beam travels while still illuminating the road. Tonight I was comfortable on unlit patches of road at 25 miles per hour and hit speeds of 32 but there were lights on that part of the hill.
If this is any indication of the amount of light the 600L puts out, I sat in my car and compared the amount of light from my car's head lights on low beam to the 600L and the 600L lights up the road directly in front of the car better. Now to be fair, I think my car's headlights are not adjusted to penetrate far enough out.
Bruce
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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A quick update on the Dinotte lighting system.
I wanted to see how much run time I would get with one battery powering both the head light and tail light. I rode last night for an hour and 11 minutes with both head light on high and the tail light flashing on high. I returned home and put the bike in the garage with the head light pointed through the door and into my kitchen. I finally unplugged the light at 4 hours and 37 minutes. The low warning indicator was on but the head light and tail light were still working.
Bruce
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NateM
new member
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 16
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Bruce,
thanks for the update and I look forward to your speed tests when you lose the moon.A note of caution when running a lights battery down when not moving...it will overheat.The aluminum casing is its heat sink and it needs air blowing on it,maybe use a fan if not moving.The luxeon star leds (especially 3 crowded together) get really hot and wont last that long if they get overheated.What size battery were you using? Thanks,Nate
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
NateM wrote:
Bruce,
thanks for the update and I look forward to your speed tests when you lose the moon.A note of caution when running a lights battery down when not moving...it will overheat.The aluminum casing is its heat sink and it needs air blowing on it,maybe use a fan if not moving.The luxeon star leds (especially 3 crowded together) get really hot and wont last that long if they get overheated.What size battery were you using? Thanks,Nate
Hi Nate,
I hadn't thought about the heat issue, but fortunately the LEDs do not get very hot. The housing is warm to the touch but I can easily hold the light in my hand and it feels luke warm.
The batteries come in two sizes. The two cell battery weights 130 grams and the four cell battery weights 230 grams. The four cell battery is the one where I got 4 hours and 37 minutes running both headlight and tail light. I am probably going to return the 2 cell battery because I think of a reason to keep it. The 2 cell battery was intended to power the tail light.
I will work on those speed comparisons. I could also send you photos of the hills so you could see what the area looks like.
Bruce
Edited by Darby (10/02/07 07:56 PM)
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Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Never where I want to be
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You need UBER LIGHT!
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Nev wrote:
You need UBER LIGHT!
The Lupine stuff is very bright but expensive. It would be cheaper to buy two Dinotte 600Ls for $750 and get 1200 lumens. The Wilma is 1400 lumens but cost over a $1000.
However, anyone interested in seeing what bike lights are capable of should go to the lupine website, click on the products tab and select lighttest. web page
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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I rode on Wednesday and Thursday without any moon light. My goal was to do a good evaluation of the light in as close to total darkness as I could get. That isn?t easy where I live. Most of the hills around here have street lights. However, there is one hill that I ride without any street lights and just one traffic light at the bottom of the hill. Coasting down the hill I was hitting speeds of about 25 MPH and I could easily see the road in front of me well enough to stop if something was in the road. I would say that I can see easily 50 yards. I might even be able to ride faster but 25 MPH but I didn?t have a steeper hill without street lights.
I am very happy with the Dinotte 600L and the taillight. They provide all the light that I need and the batteries are cheap at $50.00 to power both lights for more than four hours.
Bruce
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Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Never where I want to be
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You might be interested in this Night Visibility exploration here
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rocklandbike
new member
Reged: 06/17/04
Posts: 16
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FWIW, I've been regularly night riding with several members of my club in the winter months.
I've been riding for several seasons with a NiteRider HID light (old pre-digital ones) and it's fantastic. I regularly do descents above 20mph with no problems with the light head mounted. I get ride times in excess of 3 hours with it regularly, and on many rides my friends have had their lights go out and my headlight has been enough to light their way too.
I've just bought the NiteRider Flight, which is a lighter weight battery (LiIon no NiMh) and it's the same great power, much much lighter. It technically throws about 550 lumens.
I just bought the NiteRider TriNewt LED which is over 600 lumens, but I'm not quite as happy with it. At about 15 feet it throws a much brighter and clearer white light when testing in a dark basement, but on the bike the light seems much less focused, and as a result isn't so great for the distances a road light often needs.
I've put it on my bars, it's a nice supplement, but I'm not crazy about it. The pack is heavier than the HID battery as well.
I would not ride nights without a helmet-mounted light. The ability to look directly at a driver and get their attention has saved me countless times.
Keep in mind, btw that visibility to cars is as important as is visibility for the cyclist. Here's the (overkill) rig of one of my buddies. I use the down-low glow lights he's got on there, but i've recently stopped using the hokeyspokes, because i've had one fly off.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AXNVzkKkBKc
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 189
Loc: Plano, TX
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ROFL. Great video!
What are these down low glow light things? They look pretty cool!
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 441
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
rocklandbike wrote:
I would not ride nights without a helmet-mounted light. The ability to look directly at a driver and get their attention has saved me countless times.
I am riding at night with just a headlight and tailight. This combo puts out as much light as I need to see where I am going even at 25 mph hour down hill; but, I have been thinking of getting a helmet mounted light just the reason you said, so that I can shine it at drivers. I don't think I need much power for this. I was considering Dinotte's 200 Lumen light but I think that is overkill for what I need and too expensive. I would like a LED because I like the quality of light, but I don't need much power.
Anyone have any suggestions.
Thanks,
Bruce
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Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Never where I want to be
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I agree with rocklandbike.
I also would NOT skimp on power. Drivers heading into an intersection, stop sign or light, or any side road, at night, need their attention grabbed EARLY. The sooner you can make your presence known, the better. You'll also need it for scanning an intersection to make sure all the drivers know you're there. With all the cars I see running lights and signs while I'm on the bike, the more light I can get in their face the better.
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