RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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Interested in comments from Look carbon owners who have newer model (KG 280/380/480 series frames and/or the older KG70/90 series bikes). Any comments on the newer generation Look's comparable ride characteristics, durability, & quality?
I have a KG 96 (circa 1991/92)and it is still rideable (and race worthy) after many miles and a few ugly crashes. It now serves mostly on the trainer and for inclement weather riding. I considered getting a KG 281/381/461 or the like but did not because among other things, I did not care for those new aluminum head tube lugs. However, I always check out Look's latest creations just in case. What I did do years ago was get a Tetra-custom with KG 281 laid-back geometry and it rides superbly.
I read in the past (velonews mag, etc.) that pro-riders stress(ed) their frames to such an extent that they would replace their aluminum lugged Looks or TVTs each season. Is this still true for the newer Looks? Is annual frame replacement a part of the team business sponsorship cycle or tradition? I know I've never come close to stressing my old Look since it appears to have held its structural integrity this long (knock on wood...) Nor do I worry too much about flex since there were times when I dropped the chain while climbing out of the saddle or watched the bb move while on the trainer. The former was apparently solved by replacing a worn out drive train and losing some weight while the latter still occurs....so what,huh?
Style-wise, I still admire KG96's lines, small diameter tubes and lugs in spite of possible delamination or catastrophic bonding failure. I wish I had taken a chance and also bought a TVT? Anyone still ride a TVT?
regards,
R
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DaveN
new member
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 33
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I recently acquired two new Look models in rapid succession: I was fortunate enough to see the Interbike 2003 Look 481SL that a friend who frequents the same LBS acquired at the end of the show. I was so impressed with the fit and finish and the overall quality of the bike that when a chance to purchase a frame at a 'price I could not refuse' arose, I grabbed with both hands.
I built it up with Record 10 and Mavic K/SLs. The result is a ride that is the proverbial 'magic carpet' combined with crisp and responsive handling. Fast but stable in corners. Very good response out of the saddle. And, given our lumpy streets here (frost heaves, repairs, small and unavoidable potholes) the frame absorbs buzz without the 'dead' feeling that I experienced with my first carbon ride, a Trek 5200.
A few weeks later, when I was considering what to do about another bike that proved to be too small for me given recent changes in the way I ride (better condition, back muscles better to allow me to stretch out more on the frame and get out of the saddle more) the same source offered me an incredible deal on a 2004 486 frameset. I added that in place of the now-replaced 2002 frameset, stripping off the parts from the other bike (Record 10) and adding a set of the new Velomax Tempset IIs.
The 486 is a much stiffer frame than the 481, and the out of saddle response is simply amazing. Again, fit, finish, and build quality is as good as it gets, on a par with my Calfee and better than almost any other carbon frame I have looked at. While the 486 is too new for more than initial impressions, the 481 is a more comfortable, all day ride, with the 486 more 'instantly responsive' and no doubt quicker on turn in response than the more traditional 481. Not harsh by any means, but only less comfortable in contrast to the incredibly smooth 481.
Finally, I would be surprised if either of these frames had longevity issues. The carbon is very well laid up from what I can see, and from speaking to a few other Look owners, mostly 281 and 381 series, they have experienced no problems at all. Dave N.
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Time Wounds All Heels
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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Dave,
Do you attribute your 481SL's ride smoothnes to its laid-back geometry? It has a slacker STA compared to the 486.
Speaking of fore/aft stretch, have you ever used an ergo stem? I have them on all my bikes. Its great to be able to tweak and adjust throughout the season because our bodies are not always in 'race' condition.
Of course, pls post pictures of your bikes on the forum ASAP. Oh, if you ever come across any NOS TVTs in your hunting/gathering missions pls let me know.
Thanks,
Richard
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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Dave,
Pls post photos of your Look 'fleet' and the D-fly. Thanks,
R
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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DaveN
new member
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 33
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As you asked, I just posted photos of the 481 and 486, including some closeups that will show you the differences in the tubeset and shape and build of the head tube. (They should appear as soon as Gary gets a chance to clear them for posting.)
The Calfee Dragonfly is taken apart for winter maintence, but if you can't find enough shots in the Calfee Gallery, when I have it back together in a week or so, I will post there and let you know when I do. Dave N.
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Time Wounds All Heels
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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Dave,
Thank you for posting the images....looking forward to seeing them. No rush on the D-fly (but feel free to post them anyway).
If I see any more Dragonflys it will cause me to scheme on why I should add one to the collection.
Merry Christmas....
Richard
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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Dave,
What size is your 481SL? Looks like a 53 or 54c-c? BTW -did you ever see the le Tour 100th Anniversary KG381 close up? That model looked very nice.
regards, Merry Xmas
R
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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DaveN
new member
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 33
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You have a sharp eye there, R. It's a 54cm. No, didn't see that model. Dave N.
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Time Wounds All Heels
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hamcam7
new member
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 2
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Hi all,
I live in Aussie, & ride an old LOOK 171, the same frame ONCE used back in the 90's. I have had it for about 6 years & are only now considering a change. The color of this frame in light blue, & I have never seen another like this.I would like to know if any others have seen or ride one of these.I read with interest what you had to say about the 481. However the cost of these in Aussie seems quite high.
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DaveN
new member
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 33
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There are quite a few Look 381s on sale now that the 481 is out. You may want to consider one of those as I understand the 481 is a refinement, but not a night and day change. Dave
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Time Wounds All Heels
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hamcam7
new member
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 2
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Hi, yea, I have a quick look at these the 381, however I had a peek at a 481 also in the LBS, veryyyyyy nice it was black. I still have a couple of months to decide & i will keep looking for a good deal on frame.
Happy new year from Aussie.
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DaveH
new member
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 7
Loc: Dallas, TX
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Hi, I've had a hard time getting a log on so it took my a while to respond. I've owned over 10 LOOK frames and have 5 currently. I own a KG86, KG76, KG286, AL384, and a new aquired KG381i Jalabert. My KG86 and KG76 are converted to single speeds and are ridden daily. They each have thousands of miles and I've had no problems with the joints. The KG86 is a 1988 model that has TVT dropouts and lugs. I know LOOK made their own frames in 1989 but I can't help but think my 1988 KG86 was made by TVT. Other than the decals, the frame is identical to a TVT.
Dave Hickey/ Dallas, TX
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Dave Hickey/ Dallas, TX
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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Dave,
Welcome to the BFC...would be nice to see your Look collection in the gallery, especially the KG 76 & 86. I originally wanted a TVT (wish I could find a NOS model in rideable condition) but was quite happy with the KG96. Almost bought the 'Hinault' KG 76. How does that ride since you converted it to single speed? BTW - Others might want to hear ride reports on your newer models too.
Thanks,
Richard
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DaveH
new member
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 7
Loc: Dallas, TX
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I live in very flat north Texas so most of my riding is single speed. I'll post some pictures of my 86 soon.
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Dave Hickey/ Dallas, TX
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DaveH
new member
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 7
Loc: Dallas, TX
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I've had my 381i for a week now and I've ridden it for about 125 miles. It is extremely comfortable. The frame itself is as comfortable as my KG76 or KG86. The HSC4 fork is much stiffer than the original LOOK fork. I can easily ride the 381 on centuries and beyond...
Dave
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Dave Hickey/ Dallas, TX
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RDP
captain
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 245
Loc: Kansas
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So you must also like the 381's slack seat tube geometry? Do you think it makes a difference and/or adds to overall ride comfort?
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It is about the bike.....BikeFanClub Forums
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DaveH
new member
Reged: 12/27/03
Posts: 7
Loc: Dallas, TX
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The slack geometry really helps. All three of my LOOKs are 51 cm but actual top tube on the 381 is 1 cm longer. However,the effective top tube is the same as the KG76 and 86. When I set up the 381, the saddle is 1cm further forward on the rails to give me the same knee over pedal position as my other LOOKs.
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Dave Hickey/ Dallas, TX
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