Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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I am thinking about replacing my wired Cateye cycle computer with something that has both heart rate and cadence included. My Polar heart rate monitor / wrist watch is a little hard to read while riding and having it incorporated with the cycle computer may be a better idea. Currently, I do not have cadence and thought it might be a good training tool. Any thoughts on this?
There are a few units I have looked at:
* The Garmin Edge 305 looks like it does everything that I could ever want in a cycle computer, but at $300 might it might be a little pricy.
* Polar makes the CS200cad which is cheaper but the display looks a bit crowded.
* The Wintech HR is simpler. It has a three line display, speed, HR and cadence in a large easy to read display.
Ideally I would want a stopwatch, speed, distance, HR and cadence displayed. The Garmin may be the only cycle computer that will display all this data easily on one screen.
Any other cycle computer I should consider? My biggest complaint with most cycling computers is that the font is too small for my eyes.
Bruce
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Mazurka
new member
Reged: 03/13/06
Posts: 8
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I've had the Garmin 305 for about a year now, and I've got to say I really love it. It's got an HRM and cadence unit. Actually, it's got everything you could want (except power). The display is totally configurable, so if you want to show 2 fields in a huge font, you can do that. It's got 2 pages of basic display... I currently use one page for my standard training/riding, and the second page is set up for racing crits, each page displaying 6 fields.
Incidentally, one of the coolest features when racing crits is the fact that, since it's a GPS, it automatically keeps track of the laps for you. I can look down and see what lap I'm on  .
It's really been a wonderful training tool. I feel like I've gotten my money's worth from it, and I don't even use all the features.
One big plus for me over the Polar I had before was user-replaceable battery in the HRM strap and cadence unit. The criticism I've heard for the Garmin is that the rechargeable battery only lasts 5-6 hours, so it might not survive some of those really long days. I haven't had it conk out on me yet, though. I've got a solution prepared, in any case...
Let me know if you have any other questions about the unit, or the associated software/services.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Mazurka wrote:
The criticism I've heard for the Garmin is that the rechargeable battery only lasts 5-6 hours, so it might not survive some of those really long days.
Thanks for the reply Mazurka.
The battery life on the Garmin 305 Edge seems to be a problem. I didn't realize it was only 5-6 hours. I thought it had enough battery for a century at least. However, I have heard of people wiring up an external battery pack and plugging it in through the USB port. Do you know if this works?
There is a Polar cycle computer that has power which would be great to have, but the price is around $700. I think that is a little too steep for my wallet.
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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I would seriously consider the Garmin. Back in this thread I mentioned the only reason I hadn't tried the Garmin was the lack of a power meter. Earlier this year I decided to try it anyway and picked up a 305 with the heartrate and cadence sensor.
I come from several years of using the Polar 725x with power system, so my opinions are a bit slanted from knowing the polar system so well (I'm betting its the very system you were thinking of Darby).
Overall, I am very pleased with the 305 and though I do miss my power data, the additional features of the Garmin really make up for the lost metrics. I too had heard the units suffer from short battery life, but I also haven't seen that yet. I picked up a spare battery (APC UPB10) I can use should that ever be a problem for super long rides or multi-day rides but I haven't crossed that road yet.
Things I dig about the Garmin 305:
- GPS I like being able to correlate a location on a map to my speed, heartrate and cadence.
- Time based alerting I hydrate on a very strict schedule and the Garmin's time based alerting is a great secondary reminder it's time to drink.
- GPS Based Auto Lap It's cool to have the unit keep track of laps if that's part of your outdoor riding.
- Works well with a trainer During the week I ride almost exclusively on the trainer, and the rear mounted speed sensor works great and is a must for me. I had also heard the cadence/speed sensors ran out of batteries quickly too, but I also haven't seen that. I did have to replace the cadence battery when I first got the unit, but haven't had to replace it since.
- Customer Support If you ever have a problem with your 305, give customer support a call. I'm telling you, Garmin's customer support is second to none and a total pleasure to work with. Two thumbs WAY up. I'm used to the total pricks Polar hires for customer service reps, who will lecture you, talk down at you, promise to send things that never arrive and leave you on hold for a million years.
- Apple Support Very few cycle computers out there support OSX, so this is another pretty big win for me.
- Display Configuration Lets you configure the fields you want to see on the screen as well as control how many different fields display at a time. The fewer the fields, the larger the numbers (would be great for you Darby since you mention wanting a large display). Personally, I really dig seeing 8 different datapoints on the same screen. The numbers are tiny with that many fields shown, but not as much as you might think and I love have quick access to that much ride data. Totally love it!
- Frequent Firmware Updates Garmin has been very good at working the kinks out of the 305 with up-to-date firmware releases. If you get a new device be sure to update its firmware, it will be lots more stable and I suspect the batteries perform better with the newer firmware. If you have any trouble upgrading the firmware, call Customer Support.
Things I DON'T like about the Garmin 305:
- Weak/Recreational Training Software The software feels like what it exactly is. GPS software first and training software second. I'm guessing this is why Garmin has partnered so closely with MotionBased to fill in the gaps as it were. The Motionbased app is nice, but like the Garmin software, has a recreational rider feel to it. The Motionbased application doesn't support the tracking of rides done on a trainer.
In a related beef, Polar's software keeps each workout in it's own file which is easily exportable/importable. This feature is great for those who have a coach that likes to keep track of how you are doing. It's also handy for programmer like me, since I have my own web based training tool to keep track of my workouts. I can very easily send only my new workout files to my training application. Garmin forces you to export your entire history in order to get the raw stats for a single ride. The resulting history file gets massive very quickly as it contains every GPS recorded plot point. These things probably aren't a problem to 99% of the folks out there using the software, but lack of support for transportable statistical information is why I say the software is targeted toward "recreational riders", rather than a team based rider or a statistical power user.
- GPS Based Auto Lap yeah I both love and hate this feature. It's great if you ride outside, but it needs to be turned off when on the trainer. Otherwise you end up with 5 second laps.
Anyway, thats my 10 cents on the subject. I'm sure there are other things I both like and don't like about it but they escape me at the moment. I think for the price, flexibility, and features the Garmin 305 is a great choice. 
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote: I picked up a spare battery (APC UPB10) I can use should that ever be a problem for super long rides or multi-day rides but I haven't crossed that road yet.
Wow, Umlunga a great and well thought out review! I have tried to read everything I could find on the Garmin 305 Edge and you did a better and more comprehensive review than any other review that I have read. So, I will be buying a Garmin 305 Edge.
Also, thanks for dispelling the power issue. I was really considering buying a Polar with the power option but was hesitant because of the price. You just saved me a lot of money.
I do have a few questions on the APC UPB10 external battery. Have you used it yet? If so, how well does it work? I have a Bento Box on my bike and thought I could put an optional battery there if I ever needed one.
Bruce
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Mazurka
new member
Reged: 03/13/06
Posts: 8
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Nice review, Umlungu.
I've only had battery issues when I didn't charge the Garmin between rides. And for centuries +, I devised this solution.
I agree that the training software that comes with the Garmin, as well as the MotionBased stuff, is a little lightweight. I've been thinking of picking up CyclingPeaks.
Actually, when I was hanging out at the end of stage 3 of the Tour of California this year, I swung by the Garmin booth to chat with the rep about a couple ideas I had for improving their system. The guy tried to hire me. But the important thing I got was that the rep said they have three big requests from customers for the Garmin Edge/Forerunner:
1) power integration of some sort
2) moving map display on the unit (show some streets, etc.)
3) Ability to put together routes on the PC and upload them to the Garmin
#3 would be really nice. I hope they're working on that.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Mazurka wrote:
I devised this solution.
1) power integration of some sort
2) moving map display on the unit (show some streets, etc.)
3) Ability to put together routes on the PC and upload them to the Garmin
#3 would be really nice. I hope they're working on that.
Hi Mazurka,
I followed your link and read about your battery charging solution. I do have a question on this and it might be a stupid question but thought I'd ask it anyway.
When the battery is charging, is the Garmin 305 available for use? I just wanted to make sure that the words, "Battery Charging in Process" didn't appear the whole time you were riding.
My other question, is when you spoke to the Garmin rep, did he indicate if they intended to add any of the three requested additions? You are right, the ability to add routes to the 305 from a PC would be very cool.
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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Thanks guys, the Garmin review was something that's been brewing in my mind the last few weeks that I had meant to post here, but hadn't had the motivation to write it down. Your post was the perfect opportunity. 
About the APC UPB10; I haven't used it with the 305 yet as I just haven't had the need. I know I will, especially on rides which span multiple days with camping in between where there isn't access to plugs to charge the 305 up. The external battery works well for any usb charged device (my cell phone can be charged this way too) so it's great for multiple uses. My thought was exactly like yours about using it with my bento box. It should be a Med. - Large bento box in order for it to fit if you don't want it sticking out the top.
The 305 will run perfectly fine while the power cable is connected so it's a pretty solid solution should extra power be needed. I have a long usb cable hooked up to my 305 while I ride the trainer. It functions perfectly while in use and charging.
Also on the power topic, the Garmin website is advertising the typical power consumption at around 12 hours. If my 305 only last 5-6 hours on a charge I would call Garmin and see what they could do. My hunch is if I had followed all their suggestions and still couldn't get a longer session with it, they would replace the unit, though I don't know that for a fact. 50% of the advertised battery life kinda sounds like a battery problem, this is where a great customer service dept. could really make your day.
My bigger concern for longer rides is the data recording capacity rather than power. Garmin says the Smart Recording extends the device's ability to store large amount of data but because of the way it records its difficult to say how long it will record before filling up. I haven't filled mine up, but I would hate for it to konk out on me in the last hour of a 2 day ride. LOL That would suck.
If you end up getting the 305, be sure to let me know how it works for you.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
About the APC UPB10; I haven't used it with the 305 yet as I just haven't had the need. I know I will, especially on rides which span multiple days with camping in between where there isn't access to plugs to charge the 305 up. The external battery works well for any usb charged device (my cell phone can be charged this way too) so it's great for multiple uses. My thought was exactly like yours about using it with my bento box. It should be a Med. - Large bento box in order for it to fit if you don't want it sticking out the top.
The APC UPB10 is about the same size as my Palm Treo 700 which I carry easily in my Bento Box. So, it looks like a good option.
Thanks for the feedback. I will be buying the Garmine 305 Edge shortly and will let you know how it is working for me.
Bruce
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
I come from several years of using the Polar 725x with power system, so my opinions are a bit slanted from knowing the polar system so well (I'm betting its the very system you were thinking of Darby).
Overall, I am very pleased with the 305 and though I do miss my power data, the additional features of the Garmin really make up for the lost metrics.
Umlungu,
I re-read your post again and noticed an error I made in my response to your post. I misread your comment about power data. So you did find the power feature useful on the Polar 725x. Did it help you monitor your strength improvements? Unfortunately the Garmine 305 Edge doesn't have it.
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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I found measuring wattage a great indicator of how I was doing from day to day. I really liked it. In the end, I had so much trouble with the power unit itself, I decided to bag it.
The unit requires the watch to be strapped onto the handlebar base and two tiny pins on the base line up and make contact with 2 tiny holes on the back of the 725.
This was pretty easy to do, but I found that even with the watch strapped in as tight as possible, the connection was was pretty flaky - meaning it would show your power, speed, cadence for 15 minutes then wouldn't for 3 minutes, then it would work, then not again. Very spotty and that was on my trainer. When I took it on the road, the performance got even worse and forget about it on any rough surface like chip seal roads.
I sent the power unit and watch to polar service dept twice and both times they said it needed new batteries and shipped it back to me. I talked to Polar support quite a bit, which is why I value a friendly and helpful Customer Service so much.
After each call to Polar, I found myself making excuses for their attitudes ("maybe it was just that one rep who is a jerk" or "maybe this guy was just having a bad day" or "maybe that gal is just sick of her job" etc). After talking to so many different reps and getting the same crap, I figured either I'm the one who is a jerk or the attitude must be dictated from the corporate level. They may support local rides as well as the pros, but my experience with the company has soured me on their products. Especially at those prices.
Anyway, I had the power unit setup correctly but for whatever reason it was just really flaky. My LBS seemed to think it was a flawed design. I sold the power unit (but kept the 725) and used that to fund the Garmin 305 which can be bought new for well below MSRP online.
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Mazurka
new member
Reged: 03/13/06
Posts: 8
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Quote:
Darby wrote:
When the battery is charging, is the Garmin 305 available for use? I just wanted to make sure that the words, "Battery Charging in Process" didn't appear the whole time you were riding.
My other question, is when you spoke to the Garmin rep, did he indicate if they intended to add any of the three requested additions? You are right, the ability to add routes to the 305 from a PC would be very cool.
Bruce
Sorry I'm a little late responding on this one: Yes, the Garmin is available for use when charging. The message "Battery Charging in Progress" is displayed while the unit is off, but it can be turned on as normal.
The Garmin rep indicated that they were working on #2 and #3, but I got the impression that their software team isn't huge, and bug fixes are currently prioritized over new features. I think #1 is going to be more of a business issue for them... they'll need to find someone to partner with to provide power data. Or license the technology from a third party.
Ryan
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Mazurka wrote:
Sorry I'm a little late responding on this one: Yes, the Garmin is available for use when charging. The message "Battery Charging in Progress" is displayed while the unit is off, but it can be turned on as normal.
The Garmin rep indicated that they were working on #2 and #3, but I got the impression that their software team isn't huge, and bug fixes are currently prioritized over new features. I think #1 is going to be more of a business issue for them... they'll need to find someone to partner with to provide power data. Or license the technology from a third party.
Ryan
Thanks Ryan for the insight. I think an external battery is a good option and it would work for me on rides long enough to need more electricity.
It would great if Garmin added the proposed features you mentioned, especially 2 and 3. However, I would imagine that it means the purchase of a new cycle computer.
I will buy the 305 Edge shortly. I had an unexpected repair on my car which killed my budget for this month.
Thanks for the help,
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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I was clicking through some pictures of yesterday's YDF stage and saw an interesting pic.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tour07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/tour07/tour075/fs004
Erik Zabel uses a Garmin Edge. I wonder if Gamin is a sponsor.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
I was clicking through some pictures of yesterday's YDF stage and saw an interesting pic.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tour07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/tour07/tour075/fs004
Erik Zabel uses a Garmin Edge. I wonder if Gamin is a sponsor.
Nice to know that the pros use the Garmin Edge.
By the way, I purchased one and just received shipping confirmation that mine is in transit. I will be checking the mail box and eagerly awaiting its arrival. This thing is going to be cool!
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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Very cool! I think you will be very happy with it. Be sure to let me know how it turns out! Did you get the cadence and HRM options?
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
Very cool! I think you will be very happy with it. Be sure to let me know how it turns out! Did you get the cadence and HRM options?
I bought the bundle with both HR and Cadence. I have a heart rate monitor from Polar but it is strapped to my arm. I like the idea of having everything in one large easy to read display.
A feature the Edge has that influenced my decision to buy is that it will compare my performance against a previous workout. So, I can check my pace and see if I am improving or not on the most difficult parts of my ride. Every day I ride a road near my house that has five big rolling hills; then once a week I ride farther and hit the sixth hill which maxes out my heart rate. I would like to see if my speed is increasing and my heat rate is decreasing going up that hill.
I am sure that the Garmin has other useful features as well.
Bruce
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
Very cool! I think you will be very happy with it. Be sure to let me know how it turns out! Did you get the cadence and HRM options?
I have been using my Garmin 305 Bundle for about a month and it does everything that I wanted and a lot more. I am very impressed with it. The only issue that I have is battery life. I did a 2 hour ride today with a fully charged battery and the battery indicator showed half empty by the end of my ride. I don't think this is a faulty battery indictor either Friday as I started my ride a message appeared that the battery was too low and needed charging. So it I am only getting about 5 hours of battery life out of a charge.
Anyone have a similar experience? I believe Garmin is advertising 12 hours of battery life.
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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I think its time to give Garmin a call.
I did a 5 hour ride on Saturday and had about 1/3 of the battery remaining when I stopped. Last weekend I accidentally left it on for 15 hours before my ride (I forgot to turn it off when I was packing up my ride gear the evening before) and I still got an hour out of it before it ran out!
One thought here as well. I wouldn't necessarily conclude that because the battery is showing half full after 2-2.5 hours that it will only last for 5 total. It could be the rate at which the battery discharges is quicker in the first half than in the latter half of its cells. I have zero expertise in this area so this is just pure speculation on my part, but you don't really know how long the battery will last until you use it up.
At any rate, give Garmin a call and see what they have to say on the subject. I have called them a few times now and am more impressed each time I talk to them.
I hope it works out for ya!
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
I think its time to give Garmin a call.
I did a 5 hour ride on Saturday and had about 1/3 of the battery remaining when I stopped. Last weekend I accidentally left it on for 15 hours before my ride (I forgot to turn it off when I was packing up my ride gear the evening before) and I still got an hour out of it before it ran out!
One thought here as well. I wouldn't necessarily conclude that because the battery is showing half full after 2-2.5 hours that it will only last for 5 total. It could be the rate at which the battery discharges is quicker in the first half than in the latter half of its cells. I have zero expertise in this area so this is just pure speculation on my part, but you don't really know how long the battery will last until you use it up.
At any rate, give Garmin a call and see what they have to say on the subject. I have called them a few times now and am more impressed each time I talk to them.
I hope it works out for ya!
I called Garmin and they offered to repair it. They also recommended that I flush the memory which they say might correct the problem. They tell me that with the cadence and heart rate monitor, 5-6 hours is about average usage.
I will try flushing the memory and see if that helps.
I found this USB battery charger through a Google search and it looks small and light enough that it might work.
web page
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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Looks like a nice little charger there. Let me know how it works if you decide to do with it. I think a charger is definitely worth it, if only for the times that the unit gets accidentally left on overnight or the unit you have isn't getting great battery life.
I'm suprised to hear that 5-6 hours is average for typical use. I have the cadence and HRM options as well. Perhaps i should just thank my lucky stars I'm getting such good battery life. A couple of questions:
1. Did they say how long it would take them to repair the unit if you did send it in?
2. What sort of recording interval are you using? I'm using the "Smart recording" option.
3. Is the firmware up to date?
One other observation I will make about the computer is that the speeds and distances reported by the unit are consistently lower than that of my riding partners. I'm not sure if this is because my riding partners have their wheel settings off or if the Garmin's Smart Recording interval has a greater margin of error. I would think that the speed being reported is more accurate than the wheel calculated models but I don't know for sure.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
Looks like a nice little charger there. Let me know how it works if you decide to do with it. I think a charger is definitely worth it, if only for the times that the unit gets accidentally left on overnight or the unit you have isn't getting great battery life.
I'm suprised to hear that 5-6 hours is average for typical use. I have the cadence and HRM options as well. Perhaps i should just thank my lucky stars I'm getting such good battery life. A couple of questions:
1. Did they say how long it would take them to repair the unit if you did send it in?
2. What sort of recording interval are you using? I'm using the "Smart recording" option.
3. Is the firmware up to date?
One other observation I will make about the computer is that the speeds and distances reported by the unit are consistently lower than that of my riding partners. I'm not sure if this is because my riding partners have their wheel settings off or if the Garmin's Smart Recording interval has a greater margin of error. I would think that the speed being reported is more accurate than the wheel calculated models but I don't know for sure.
I forgot to ask about their turn around time but I believe that they are fairly fast. They also told me that they could sell me a new one and give me credit when I return the old one which is probably what I would do.
I am not using the smart intervals. That would probably be a good idea and might save some battery life. Also, I mainly entered a while size when I set the device up. Not sure if that was a good idea or not.
Updating the firmware is probably a good idea. I think I did it when the device was new but not sure.
Lastly, I spoke to the people that make the Powerstick. The device will be available in Mid September and will sell for $69.00. The Powerstick puts out 750 Mah and the Garmine 305's battery puts out 800 Mah. So the powerstick will just about double the battery life. Custom length USB cables are available through Powerstick people as well.
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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So it looks like Garmin just announced my next cyclecomputer!
Edge 705
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=&pID=10885
Looks like the new 705 will sport:
Longer Battery life
A Larger, Color Display
Expandable Memory Slot (MicroSD)
Maps Support
Wireless Power Meter Support
Auto-cycling Stats Screens
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Mazurka
new member
Reged: 03/13/06
Posts: 8
Loc: San Jose, CA
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That looks awesome. It even looks like it will be compatible with the HR strap and cadence units I have for the 305. If it uses the same handlebar mount, upgrading should be nearly painless (aside from the $500+ price tag... :P).
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Dave_Thompson
prophet
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 717
Loc: Spokane, Washington
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Geez and I thought I was over the top for spending $119 for my 205 Edge!
--------------------
Steel lover, but then I like Ti with carbon too.
Licensed bike geek.
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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Quote:
Umlungu wrote:
So it looks like Garmin just announced my next cyclecomputer!
Edge 705
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=&pID=10885
Looks like the new 705 will sport:
Longer Battery life
A Larger, Color Display
Expandable Memory Slot (MicroSD)
Maps Support
Wireless Power Meter Support
Auto-cycling Stats Screens
WOW!!! If I hadn't bought a 305 a month ago, I would be standing in line to buy the 705 now. It looks like it does everything that I could every want in cycle computer.
Do you think there is a market on Ebay for used 305s?
Bruce
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Umlungu
contributor
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 183
Loc: Plano, TX
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I definately think there is an ebay market for the 305. It shpuld be noted though that these 705s wont be available till Dec. of this year - just in time for the holidays 
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Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 420
Loc: Orange County California
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I had been getting less than two hours battery life on my Edge 305. I bought it off of Ebay as a refurbished unit with the same warranty as a new one. Everything worked fine with it except for the battery life.
Well, Garmin replaced it with a new unit and now it takes 3 hours before the battery life indicator to drop from four bars to three.
I am very happy with the unit now and very happy with Garmin's customer support.
If anyone out there is having problems with the battery life on their 305, it may be worth a call to Garmin.
Bruce
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