MadRocketSci
new member
Reged: 02/18/04
Posts: 6
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Hi Tom and Spectrum-philes,
I'm looking into getting a custom bike, and I was reading some of the archives of the old serotta "phorum" about Ti. From what I read it seems there is a "limit" to how torsionally stiff and snappy you can make a Ti bike before it starts to lose its weight advantages to steel; ie, for "bigger" riders, to get the same torsional stiffness and responsiveness from ti you'd end up with a frame heavier than the equivalent steel frame.
So, my question is, is there a rough line to be drawn in rider weight and riding style where it makes less and less sense to go with ti, disregarding its corrosion and fatigue advantages? At what point do you start recommending a steel frame to someone looking for a torsionally stiff, snappy, responsive racing frame because the Ti frame either can't be made or can only be comparably heavy or heavier than a steel frame?
I'm 165 lbs and like to climb and sprint and bomb down mountain roads, btw...
Thanks,
MadRocketSci
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kajukembo
new member
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 14
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Those Serotta dudes drink a lot of beer and truly are big, they'd take look at you and think you were Iban Mayo. I weigh about what you do (early season) and my Ti frame is in the area of 2.6 pounds. I don’t feel that I’m big at all when it comes to Ti. The lightest steel frames that I've seen with reasonable tube thickness are in the 3.5 pound area before paint. I highly recommend a compact Ti frame. Mine is plenty stiff enough torsionally and is certainly stiffer than my 853 bike. However, my 853 bike has a brittle-too stiff ride vertically. My Ti bike rides like a dream in comparison. Great builders add to the materials that they work with. If you read the posts on this the new forum, you will see a consistent theme that Spectrums are quite nimble but somehow posses amazing descending qualities. What I notice the most, is how well it climbs. I believe Tom does something different with the front end geometry that makes these bikes handle the way they do. You and I seem to have similar riding styles and my Spectrum is a true all-a-rounder. Give Tom a call, tell him what you want out of a bike and he’ll tell you if it can be done. Without exception, every Spectrum rider I’ve ever met feels that Tom got their bike spot on.
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Tom_Kellogg
journeyman
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 67
Loc: Lehigh County, Pa.
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Mad:
Sorry I have taken so long in replying. I seem to be spending far too much time in the paint booth.
The quick answer to your question is, no, there is no practical upper limit for rider weight and style when working with titanium, at least not for us.
A little history... When we started with Merlin way back in Somerville, we (and they) were limited to the titanium tubing available from the top mills. Over the years, Merlin bought drawing dies when they could afford to do so in an effort to increase their range of tubing diameters and gauges. That is where some of the early Extralight tubing came from. At this point, there are no limits at all for us when it comes to tubing diameters and gauges. We can get anything we want. Merlin now has so much purchasing power that I can specify whatever I want. Once the tubing is in house, I can have it manipulated and butted to any degree. This allows us to make very large frames that have drivetrain stiffness at least as high as one of the classic Cannondale 5000s and the comfort you'd expect from our titanium frames. At the same time, we can build a 49cm frame that is just as comfortable.
I know that this sounds like a line of sales crap, but it is actually true. If we were working with any other builder, we would not be able to get just what we wanted. Lucky us. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to give us a buzz.
--------------------
Tom Kellogg
Spectrum Cycles
610-398-1986
http://spectrum-cycles.com/
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MadRocketSci
new member
Reged: 02/18/04
Posts: 6
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Tom and Kajukembo,
Thanks for your replies. I'm glad to know that there aren't any limitations for your Ti bikes. I asked this question because a while back my lbs told me that I was at the "borderline" for a Ti bike, could go either way with steel or Ti, and that they, at around 200+ lbs each, would never get a Ti bike. They do sell Ti Serottas, though it seems sometimes that their info is a bit dated and biased. They are a small shop and quite retro-grouchy.
Spectrum is definitely high on my list when I get a custom frame this fall. Gotta start saving my pennies...
MadRocketSci
SF Bay Area
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BlueJays
journeyman
Reged: 09/21/07
Posts: 69
Loc: United States
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MadRocketSci, my custom Spectrum Super titanium is exceptionally comfortable, stable, fast, and reliable. This from a person who has spent considerable time in the weightroom. You won't be disappointed! 
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