mikemd
new member
Reged: 01/24/04
Posts: 12
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I have a 54cm tetra and am having significant perineal nerve problems. Have tried 4 different seats without benefit. Seat position is pushed all the way forward and also cannot get my knee over the spindle. Seatpost has no setback and the stem is 9 cm and as high as it will go. Does anyone know of a seat with longer rails to move the seat approx 2-3 cm furthur forward? Thanks
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skagwayroadie
contributor
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 141
Loc: Alaska
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Mike...
The Flite models have a decent amount of rail legnth. The Fizik models seem to be the same.
In regards to the nerve issues...try small adjustments to the angle of the saddle...Usually sensative people tend to need the nose of the saddle pointed lower than level. Also be aware that you need to be sitting on the saddle, consistently, in the same spot everytime or you will never be comfortable. I have an especailly sensative bum and the angle has to be just so, or I am not happy...this is why I like posts like Thompson, they can be finely tuned in this aspect.
I firmly believe that it is the shape of the saddle, not the firmness of the saddle, that is most important...saddles are not very well understood. Most just get the raciest looking saddle and go ride, without ever thinking about it, until a sore or numb bum happens.
just my .02
...Mark
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mikemd
new member
Reged: 01/24/04
Posts: 12
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I have two different flite seats as well as a turbomatic and 2 different seats from terry. Do any seats have a longer rails than these to get my feet over the spindles?
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SevenOdonata
new member
Reged: 01/29/04
Posts: 19
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Mikemd,
I don't really have any ideas about what seat may work for you, but have you considered getting a bike fitting? Not the typical one you get from a shop. I had one done in the Fall to address a sore knee. We spent 2 hours of video analysis, CompuTrainer data, flexibilty measurements, biomechanical measurements of the legs, feet etc. In the end, significant adjustments to the saddle height and setback were made, along with a shorter stem and cleat angles. Results were obvious, a 10%+ increase in power output and better comfort.
I say all this since I think a fit specialist may be able to help with the issue you have and more. I know the guy I went to had dozens of different saddles, stems and bars that could be fitted to the bike to see exactly how things looked at felt, without having to buy something and finding out it's a problem. You may be able to find someone similar.
Best of luck!
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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The Fizik Arione claims to have extra long rails but I don't know what that really translates into in the real world. It may not be possible to get 2-3 cm farther forward if you've already tried those saddles pushed all the way forward.
One option is a triathlon seat post like the Profile Design Fast Forward Seat Post. I've never dealt with this reatailer - just found this link from a google search. I know it might offend your aesthetic sensibilities but then again, a seat pushed that far forward might do the same thing.
I agree with some of the other posters that you need a good bike fit - especially if this is a debilitating problem.
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mikemd
new member
Reged: 01/24/04
Posts: 12
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The bike fit I had resulted in the comment that the bike setup was as good as it can get. This was at a bike shop. He basically said that I needed a larger frame but that would mean a longer top tube and presently I have a 9cm stem. I met a guy on a ride recently who is a coach and also does fits. I guess this is the next step.Thanks
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nhm
new member
Reged: 12/19/03
Posts: 4
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Mike,
I just happen to have 2 forward seatposts gathering dust.Profile fast forward and a Ti post.If you are interested the price will be hard to beat.Contact me at nhm@cbsnews.com
Nate Merrill
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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If you have the seat pushed all the way forward and the fit guy says you need a larger frame (and you have a short stem), something's wrong. pushing the seat forward will effectively shorten your reach - the opposite effect of a bigger frame with a longer top tube. maybe i'm misunderstanding the meaning of "pushing the seat all the way forward".
if you want to get your knees further forward so they're closer to being over the pedal spindle, and you already have your saddle pushed all the way forward, getting a larger frame like the bike shop person recommends will almost certainly make the problem worse - pushing your seat position further back relative to the bottom bracket. if what you're saying is accurate (and i'm not misunderstanding) then the expertise of the bike shop employee might be questionable.
It just so happens that I saw a Fizik Arione come up on ebay and the seller gave the fizik specs which says it has 85mm of rail adjustability - the longest in it's category. you could measure your longest rail and see how much of a difference it might make. this is assuming that your seated position is the same relative the the rails on each saddle and the extra rail lenght is in the rear of the fizik - a big assumption i guess.
good luck.
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mikemd
new member
Reged: 01/24/04
Posts: 12
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When you measure the rails where do you start and end? Is it just the straight portion?
As per the bike fit, the guy said my seatpost was too high and the stem had the limit of spacecers placed above the tube. He said I would need a 55-56 cm frame likely custom with a different seat tube angle than I presently have. My old guerciotti frame circa 1984 must have a different seat tube angle because the top tube measures the same and my seatpost clamp is right in the middle of the rails and my knees are over the spindles. I guess the head tube angle would also have to be different. When I got the tetra a few years ago I just measured legnth of tubes and standover height which is the measurements they wanted to decide on the size of the frame. I will talk to the coach/bike fit guy tomorrow and see if I really need one of those funky looking seatposts.
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Jeff_Nichols
journeyman
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 73
Loc: San Jose
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The real info we need is how Fizik measures the Arione. My guess is just the flat portion.
The bike fit issue still sounds a bit odd but bike fit is a tough thing - and not easily solved on a forum i guess. :-(
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skagwayroadie
contributor
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 141
Loc: Alaska
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Mike...
Like said above, something is odd about your set up. Can you give us some specifics on your bike...frame size, stem legnth...
If the frame is close to correct for you, then you should not have to move the saddle so far forward. If your knee is not over the pedal spindle with the saddle in this postion, something is very wrong here. Where is your knee in regards to the pedal? Where is the ball of your foot on the pedal?
We need info please! How tall are you anyway
...Mark
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mikemd
new member
Reged: 01/24/04
Posts: 12
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I am 5'8" tall and I have a tetra pro 54 cm. Stem is 9cm and mounted upside down to get more height. Balls of feet are over the spindles and the tibial tuberosity is about 1.5cm behind the spindle with a plumb line. My legs might be a little long but not that significant. The saddle is level with the ground using a carpenters level. Saddle to handlebar difference is 7cm. I constantly slide to the front of the saddle especially when riding hard and would be more comfortable if the saddle was a little furthur forward. I'm really not that far off and I have been riding like this for 2yrs now. There is a John Howard fitting seminar in NC but it cost 200 bucks. I dont know how they can adjust what I have beside telling me I need a different frame.
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Triman
new member
Reged: 01/23/04
Posts: 17
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Let me give you my experience for what it's worth. I rode last year with an Selle SLR, and I got a new Arione in November. It is mounted on a Thomson Elite seat post. I did about 100 mile a week on it, except for the week between Christmas and New Year's Day...when I rode about 250 miles.
It was a much more comfortable saddle than the SLR. It is noticably softer. I tend to ride back in the saddle (which tends to relieve pressure on the perineal nerve), and for me the length of the saddle was a somewhat secondary consideration. What I found to be the chief advantage of the Arione compared to my SLR, however, was the Wingflex feature which allows for deformation of the saddle and increased clearance for your thighs while peddling.
Two weeks ago, I got a new bike, a Litespeed Vortex, and I spec'ed it with an Arione but with an Easton carbon post. The Arione is not the lightest saddle, at least compared to an SLR, but I really am sold on it.
You should know that, even with my SLR, I never had any perineal nerve problems. I also do not know what the angle, if any, of your handlebar stem is. That also can affect your position on the bike and could contribute to or relieve perineal nerve problems--the point being: is the issue really the saddle or cold it be bike fit?
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skagwayroadie
contributor
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 141
Loc: Alaska
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Nothing sounds weird except that your knee is behind the pedal axis, but not terribly bad. This is telling me your frame is on the large side. Your stem seems a tad short, but not bad. I am 5'9" and I ride a stock 54cm with 10cm stem, no difficulties.
I understand that if your knee trails the pedal axis, your cadence and spinning techniques should point towards a lower cadence and bigger gears vs being ahead of the axis, which points to a higher cadence and smoother spinning. So, your style should dictate your direction. Do you pedal toes down?...this can throw the plumbline even farther behind the pedal axis as it causes the tibia to act as a longer lever. Pedalling more flat-footed helps in this regard and can also improve performance since you are not using your gastrock muscles as much.
I would still try investigate and see about the frame maybe being on the large side. If all you are experiencing is numbness/pain and nothing else...why not adjust the current saddle or switch saddles and leave the pedal setback as it is. If you are experiencing a noticeable problem with your speed in addition to the numbness, then perhaps another frame should replace this one...perhaps one with custom geometry.
Riding on the nose of the saddle will definitely cause pain, so sliding back should releive the pressure. Remember you should be sitting on your Siht(sp) bones, not your crotch, so the rear of the saddle is were you need to be. If you are sliding forward, then the nose should come up a hair... I was told by a very good LBS owner years ago that some people have a tendency to ride with a very flat back, and this can cause the hips to rotate forward potentially causing numbness etc in the crotch due to increased pressure on the nerves. He said ultimately this is bad form, it is better to have a slightly rounded back compared to a flat back with the hips forward. It took me a while to break that habit...becasue I rode with less discomfort, I was able to ride faster and longer even though I had a rounded back.
I hope this is helpful. Keep us updated...
...Mark
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mikemd
new member
Reged: 01/24/04
Posts: 12
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I actually started rotating my hips last week to relieve the pressure which works but it takes a concious effort to do this. Also the effort required by my arms to maintain this position increases alot and I have to reposition every few minutes to get back on the end of the saddle. The harder the ride the faster the spin. My typical cadence is 90-100. I also am trying to ride less toe down but this is a harder habit to break. Thanks for the suggestions.
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skagwayroadie
contributor
Reged: 12/20/03
Posts: 141
Loc: Alaska
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Mike...
Once you train your body to ride with your hips back and toes down...it will be mucho better!!! I ride toes down and it has taken me several months to retrain the muscle memory...I understand completely. I teach Spin classes and they have been the best source for retraining bad habits...a bike and a folding trainer could do the same. Core muscle work will help reduce the strain to your arms while you retrain your hips. There is no substitute to
strong abs and lower back...
If you do pedal teos down, is your saddle hieght taking this into account...this could certainly exacerbate the knee behind the pedal axis issue?
Last night I was thnking on it some more a thought that different shorts could have an affect on your numbness as well. asearch on the old forum archives should yeild a bunch of suggestions...I like Pearl Micro or Ultra senosr shorts.
Glad thing are getting better!!
...Mark
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