Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
|
|
It is 7:00 PM and 100 degree. I really hate riding in the heat but I don't have a lot of options. Drinking more water will help, but I don't drink enough water because it is awkward to reach for a bottle when I'm climbing, which I do a lot of. So, I am looking for some sort of hydration system where I don't have to reach for a drink.
I have seen some road riders using Camelbaks but I am not sure that I want something strapped to my back which will probably cause me to sweat more and will also heat up the water.
There is a device called a NeverReach which clamps to the back of the saddle, but my saddle has a bag attached so that probably won't work.
An ideal solution would probably have a tube that goes from one of the water bottles up to the handlebars. I have seen a similar setup like this for use with aerobars, but I have carbon fiber bars so this isn't an option.
Any suggestions?
Bruce
Edited by Darby (06/22/08 03:14 AM)
|
skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
|
|
Seriously, learn to use your bottle while riding.
Why is it more difficult when climbing?
The problem I discovered with Camel Backs et al. is that they require you to draw in the water by sucking. Yes, you could just open the valve and let the water flow in, but the flow rate is rather slow.
This sucking action is awkward when riding hard. I'm busy enough riding and sucking in (lots of) air. Now I want lots of water, fast, between breaths. A conventional water bottle allows me to squirt a bunch of water in that time period (btwn breaths). A water bottle also allows me to squirt water on my head or back on those really hot days.
I'll agree that when riding at a pace where my breathing is more controlled, a Camel Back is easy to use. But as you foresee, it's another layer on your back and tends to get hot. If you already ride with a back pack, then that may not be an issue.
On my rides where I bring two bottles, one is always filled with a 'lyte replacement (Accelerade is my choice) and the other is plain water. With a hydration bag, you get to choose one. I guess you could put the other in a bottle on your bike, but then why are we having this discussion? :-p
--------------------
Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
|
skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
|
|
Quote:
Darby wrote:
An ideal solution would probably have a tube that goes from one of the water bottles up to the handlebars. I have seen a similar setup like this for use with aerobars, but I have carbon fiber bars so this isn't an option.
Any suggestions?
Bruce
You could set up a tubing from your bars to the water bottle location. The problem is that you'd be drawing water at least 24 inches. That would be hard and tiring to drink. If you had a anti-siphon type of valve, the water wouldn't fall back into the bottle and you'd only need to draw 24 inches the first time. But I have my doubts about that actually working for long. The valve would leak or road/bike bouncing/vibration would cause the water to fall back down the tube.
Trek had designed a bladder inside one of the tubes of Lance Armstrong's time trial bikes. The straw came out of the center of the stem cap, I believe. The design was to reduce aerodynamic drag and allow Armstrong to remain in his aero position rather than reach for a bottle and position it for drinking and be un-aero for that time period. The bladder was never used in competition, I don't think.
You could replace one of the spacers under your stem with a forward reaching device that hold a regular water bottle and then use a straw type device. The spacer replacement could have an arm coming forward, then bent downward with a bolt pattern to hold a bottle cage. As a machinist, I know I could easily build one. Finding a machine shop in So Cal should not be a problem. There are about a gazillion.
--------------------
Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
|
Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
|
|
Quote:
skuke wrote:
Seriously, learn to use your bottle while riding.
Why is it more difficult when climbing?
Thanks for the reply.
I do use my bottles but it seems like I don't use them enough. I think I would drink more if I didn't have to reach down and grab a bottle. Reaching for the bottle throws off my pace and where I really notice this is when I am climbing. Maybe because on some climbs I am breathing really hard, my heart rate is near peak and reaching for that bottle is something I am less likely to do. It is awkward for me to grab a bottle, take a drink and then return the bottle to the cage without screwing up my rhythm.
I only use water and never used any lytes. I unusually get something to eat at around the 30 - 35 mile mark so I haven't used any lytes. So having one bottle dedicated for lytes isn?t an issue.
Bottles may be my only option. I have never ridden with a pack and I am not sure that I could get use to a CamelBak. I really like everything attached to the bike rather than strapped on myself. If I could strap a CamelBak to my bike, I think I would get one.
Bruce
|
Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
|
|
Quote:
skuke wrote:
You could replace one of the spacers under your stem with a forward reaching device that hold a regular water bottle and then use a straw type device. The spacer replacement could have an arm coming forward, then bent downward with a bolt pattern to hold a bottle cage. As a machinist, I know I could easily build one. Finding a machine shop in So Cal should not be a problem. There are about a gazillion.
Skuke,
This sounds exactly like what I want! I would like to mount a bottle directly in front of the head tube. Reaching a bottle there would be really easy. I could probably just use a straw and then I wouldn't even need to take my hands off of the bars.
Do you think this would be something that is easy to fabricate? It might even be possible to design it so that it could be easily removed.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Bruce
|
skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
|
|
Quote:
Darby wrote:
This sounds exactly like what I want! I would like to mount a bottle directly in front of the head tube. Reaching a bottle there would be really easy.
I don't think you want to reach for a bottle there. It would be under your stem, basically. If it extended forward enough, The device would be rather large to hold the mass of a full water bottle bouncing around.
Quote:
I could probably just use a straw and then I wouldn't even need to take my hands off of the bars.
That was my thought.
Quote:
Do you think this would be something that is easy to fabricate? It might even be possible to design it so that it could be easily removed.
Yes. It would be easy to fab. If you want it easily removable. Design it to clamp to the spacer rather than replace a spacer. However, you'd probably want to replace said spacer with one made of a material other than carbon fiber. Aluminum perhaps. I'd even consider increasing the wall thickness a bit.
--------------------
Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
|
Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
|
|
There are four bolts on the front of my Ritchey stem. This would seem like a good place to mount a water bottle cage. It would be for enough forward so that it wouldn't interfere with any cables.
An aluminum water bottle cage could be modified to attach to the bolts holes on the stem.
Does this make sense?
Bruce
|
Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
|
|
I found an easy solution. Camelbak makes a bottle that accepts a house with a bite valve. It seems to work just fine. The hose is a little short but they do make extender kits.
Bruce
|
skuke
captain
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 323
|
|
Quote:
Darby wrote:
There are four bolts on the front of my Ritchey stem. This would seem like a good place to mount a water bottle cage. It would be for enough forward so that it wouldn't interfere with any cables.
An aluminum water bottle cage could be modified to attach to the bolts holes on the stem.
Does this make sense?
Bruce
I considered using the mounting bolts from a stem face plate, but I thought you had a one piece Calfee CF stem/bar so I didn't mention it.
Then, after having thought about it for a bit, I decided the face plate or it's bolts was not a good idea anyhow. I would not take the risk of additional load and vibration on a area of the bike where catastrophic failure would mean significant injury. There are already enough known problems with stems, face plates, and the bolts (not necessarily Ritchey) without adding additional stresses. If your stem is aluminum, Google aluminum stress fractures, and aluminum catastrophic failures.
By clamping to the spacer, a failure would mean that you'd drop the bottle and assembly. Yeah, it could get tangled in the front wheel, but that is unlikely and the risk of that would be better than a face plate failing.
FWIW, I was a R&D machinist for 25 years, hence my design background. I an now an RN in a trauma intensive care unit. I've seen my share of bicycle accidents and some where mechanical failures. Unfortunately, I also knew somebody who died from failure of their stem. So attaching to the face plate is not a recommendation I'd give.
--------------------
Skuke
95 Carbonframes Tetra Pro
92 Bridgestone MB-1
90 Moser 51.151
|
Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Never where I want to be
|
|
Quote:
skuke wrote:
Seriously, learn to use your bottle while riding.
Why is it more difficult when climbing?
I don't understand either. What does climbing have to do with it unless you're standing on you're pedals? That's not a time to drink anyway.
When I started commuting I had trouble with water bottles but that was for riding a Fixed gear road bike. Can't coast. But I quickly got my routine down to where I could get the bottles in/out without hitting my knee. On hills or wherever. I don't understand the trouble you're having. What pace are you riding that there is never a moment to reach for the bottle?
I ride with a Camelback on my mountain bike but that's because I rarely have a chance to take my hands off the bars. But even then you still have to, to put the mouthpiece where you can drink it. They make some pretty small ones now that're good. Nice for carrying extra stuff, too.
|
Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
|
|
Quote:
Nev wrote:
Quote:
skuke wrote:
Seriously, learn to use your bottle while riding.
Why is it more difficult when climbing?
I don't understand either. What does climbing have to do with it unless you're standing on you're pedals? That's not a time to drink anyway.
When I started commuting I had trouble with water bottles but that was for riding a Fixed gear road bike. Can't coast. But I quickly got my routine down to where I could get the bottles in/out without hitting my knee. On hills or wherever. I don't understand the trouble you're having. What pace are you riding that there is never a moment to reach for the bottle?
I ride with a Camelback on my mountain bike but that's because I rarely have a chance to take my hands off the bars. But even then you still have to, to put the mouthpiece where you can drink it. They make some pretty small ones now that're good. Nice for carrying extra stuff, too.
Maybe it is just me, but there are several 15 to 18 degree hills that I climb on a regular basis, and when I am climbing, I tend to concentrate on making it up the hill and I don't drink. Most of the year I can climb these hills without drinking, but during the summer it gets really hot here and I need to drink more. It has been between 100 and 104 ever day for the past week.
On flat ground or even on a 4 to 8 degree hill, reaching for a bottle is no problem at all. It is only when I have to put all of my effort into climbing a hill that I tend to not drink enough. So, I was looking for something like a Camelbak so I don't have to take my hands off the bars and reach for a bottle.
Bruce
Edited by Darby (06/24/08 02:09 AM)
|
Nev
captain
Reged: 05/03/04
Posts: 375
Loc: Never where I want to be
|
|
Quote:
Darby wrote:
So, I was looking for something like a Camelbak so I don't have to take my hands off the bars and reach for a bottle.
Bruce
Even with a camelback you'll have to take your hand off the bar, but just for a second or two. I think you'll like it.
|
Darby
sage
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 437
Loc: Orange County California
|
|
Quote:
skuke wrote:
I considered using the mounting bolts from a stem face plate, but I thought you had a one piece Calfee CF stem/bar so I didn't mention it.
Then, after having thought about it for a bit, I decided the face plate or it's bolts was not a good idea anyhow. I would not take the risk of additional load and vibration on a area of the bike where catastrophic failure would mean significant injury. There are already enough known problems with stems, face plates, and the bolts (not necessarily Ritchey) without adding additional stresses. If your stem is aluminum, Google aluminum stress fractures, and aluminum catastrophic failures.
By clamping to the spacer, a failure would mean that you'd drop the bottle and assembly. Yeah, it could get tangled in the front wheel, but that is unlikely and the risk of that would be better than a face plate failing.
FWIW, I was a R&D machinist for 25 years, hence my design background. I an now an RN in a trauma intensive care unit. I've seen my share of bicycle accidents and some where mechanical failures. Unfortunately, I also knew somebody who died from failure of their stem. So attaching to the face plate is not a recommendation I'd give.
Skuke,
Thanks for the help. It is great to have someone with your experience in the group. You just saved me a lot of time trying to figure out how to make this work.
Well, I have since backed away from the idea of using a tube to get water from a Camelbak or a bottle. Camelbak makes a bottle that accepts a tube with a bite value. It is necessary to add additional tubing so that the hose reaches up and clamps on the collar of a cycling jersey. This does work, but there doesn't appear to be an easy way of draining the excess water from the tube. This can be a potential problem for mold and bacteria. So, I decided to just stick with bottles and bottle cages. It is a much simpler and cheaper solution.
Bruce
|
Previous
Thread Index
Next
Threaded
Hydration Systems
Edit
Reply
Quote
